Suzy: Hola and hello, I'm Suzy, and welcome to the Wander Slow Family Travel Podcast where we discuss the stories, logistics, and finances of long-term traveling families and the multitude of ways to learn and educate along the way. So sit back, relax, and enjoy the ride.
Welcome back to the Wander Slow Family Travel podcast. Today I have the honor of having Björn Boy on from Germany. Tell us a little more about who you are, your family, where you're living, and some of your recent travels.
Björn: First, thank you for having me. We are a family of four: my wife and I, our daughter who is eight, and our son who just turned six. We are living in Germany, south of Munich, close to the Austrian border. We did a world trip back in 2022 and 2023, and now we are on a mission to start our next world trip in August, which will be open-ended.
Suzy: That's exciting. We'll definitely get into where you plan to travel. Are you and your wife also working right now in Germany?
Björn: We were both working. My wife is working part-time. I'm an entrepreneur, a video editor, and a videographer, so I'm self-employed and working full-time.
Suzy: So those are jobs that you can take with you and even incorporate into your travel.
Björn: Yes, in some regions for sure. We definitely have to see where it's possible to work on the road remotely. In some countries it's not allowed, but in others, it's possible.
Suzy: What is one of your earliest travel memories?
Björn: My earliest travel memory was last year when we headed to Oman, in the Saudi Arabia region. We had a Jeep with a rooftop tent, and we went to Oman for 10 days.
Suzy: What was the best part about that trip?
Björn: To be completely honest, the best part was the hotel before and after the rooftop tent tour. It was new for us; we booked the Jeep with the rooftop tent because we wanted to experience that travel style, but it was not what we expected. It was too chaotic for us to live out of a Jeep with two kids, and everything was not very well organized. I'm honest; it's not our style of traveling.
Suzy: What would you say is more your style of travel?
Björn: We have a big RV—or a big RV for German comparisons. We are normally camping in our RV, so we have our own house on wheels with us. Everything is organized, and we have a proper kitchen, a proper bathroom, and everything. That's our style of traveling.
Suzy: We did two months in Canada, and we didn't have a full RV, but we did have all of our stuff with us. I do find that, especially with kids, when you can have the toys and some of those comforts and bring basically everything with you, that can be very helpful. My kids are five and a half and eight, so the same ages.
So you mentioned that you did a longer family travel trip.
Björn: Yes, in 2022 and 2023, we went on a world trip for 16 months and traveled to 25 countries. That was our first world trip experience with the kids. They were little—five and two—and we enjoyed it so much that we thought, "Let's go on another one."
Suzy: That's great. What was that like traveling through that many countries? Was it a mix of fast travel and slow travel? What did you find worked best for your family?
Björn: It was a mixture. We started in Costa Rica for three weeks, then we continued to the US and traveled through the US and Canada with our own RV, which we shipped over from Germany. That was slow travel in terms of how many countries we visited during that six-month period, but we were quite fast in how many places we visited. We made a full round of the US, I think 26 states, and up to Canada. We would get bored after two or three days in the same spot.
After that, we went to French Polynesia and New Zealand, and then Southeast Asia. We stayed for two or three weeks in every country. Then we headed back in the home direction to Cyprus and Jordan, and finally back to Germany again. We picked up our RV and made a Europe trip to the north—Sweden, Norway, Estonia, Latvia—and there we just stayed for about a week in each country.
Suzy: When you were not with the RV, did you wish you had it, or was it working well for the family to do more backpacking-style travel?
Björn: That was fine. Airbnb is totally fine for us for a certain amount of time. I would say the kids prefer the RV, but they are also fine with other accommodations like Airbnbs.
Suzy: You mentioned you're coming up on another trip, planning to depart in August. Tell me more about where this trip will take you.
Björn: It's one of our biggest projects, I think. We are leaving Germany completely, so we are deregistering here and leaving our home behind. Then we are going again to Canada, the US, and also Mexico with our RV. We are shipping it over for the second time; we should have just left it over there! The plan is to explore North America even more and stay for a year, probably. After that, we plan to make our way around the world. Nothing is booked, everything's flexible, but I want to go to French Polynesia again, probably New Zealand, and maybe Australia. My wife wants to go to Australia, but who knows?
Suzy: So open-ended travel. That's exciting. And how are the kids feeling about this upcoming trip?
Björn: They're excited. Our daughter is very excited; she's had enough of her school experience. I remember a sentence she said last year when we were talking about our plans. I asked her if it was okay if we go on a world trip next year, and she said, "Yes, Dad, that's all right. I think one year of school is enough for me." So she's excited to go. Our son is maybe a little bit sad because he loves kindergarten and his friends, but he's also fine with it. He's looking forward to having lots of nature and experiencing new things.
Suzy: It can be a different way of thinking when it comes to schooling on the road versus in a classroom. My husband grew up in Germany, so he says it is very different in many ways. Have you thought more about if you'll follow a curriculum or do more unschooling or worldschooling?
Björn: We will have a combination of worldschooling and roadschooling. We will also follow a curriculum from an institution called the Deutsche Fernschule, which translates to the German Remote School. They provide us with all the papers, worksheets, and materials. We have 50 kilograms of materials with all the stuff for them—rubber bands, pens, paper, little dolls, ropes, everything they use to integrate into the curriculum and lessons. We’ll put all this in our RV and try to school our children with a combination of worldschooling and their remote school.
Suzy: I can see why you would want to have an RV even more with all those materials. That would be an entire suitcase!
Björn: Even more.
Suzy: With the open-ended travels coming up, you mentioned that you work online. What has worked well for a location-independent business for you, and what have been some of the challenges?
Björn: I think the biggest challenge is the time difference. If you have customers in Europe and you are working from Southeast Asia or New Zealand, you have a 12-hour time difference, and you might have meetings in the middle of the night. Apart from that, it's the same work. Of course, you need good internet for calls or uploading and downloading stuff, but I think the time difference is the biggest challenge.
Suzy: That can be difficult, especially with children. Living in Spain with my husband working for the US has actually worked well. He works from about noon until eight, and it's when the kids are at school. You do have to take into account time zones. Do you have a typical monthly travel budget that you try to stay under?
Björn: We have quite a bit of experience from our recent world trip. In 16 months, we spent around €80,000, which is about €5,500 per month. We worked a little bit on the road, but we also had savings. This time we also have savings because we can't work in the US and Canada with our visas, so we have to rely on our savings during that time. But at some stage, you need some income to make it sustainable.
Suzy: That sounds like a great budget, and I'm sure it's pretty comparable or maybe even less than what someone might spend living at home in Germany. Certainly, in the US, that type of spending could be very typical.
Björn: Yes, I think it will be even less this time because last time we had quite a lot of unexpected expenses. The shipment of the RV is quite expensive, so that was one big block of spending. The longer you are traveling in an RV and you can boondock and just free roam, you don't have to pay for every night, so it gets less and less expensive. We plan to cut the budget a little bit. We wouldn't spend €5,000 or €5,500 here in Germany, and we don't have to pay rent on the road, so it might be less.
Suzy: Did you have any troubles finding places to boondock? Are there resources that help people find places to stay?
Björn: The only place where it's not so easy to find overnight places is in the cities. Like in Los Angeles, it was challenging or not possible at all. San Francisco was also a bit hard. But apart from the cities, if we go to open desert areas like Arizona or Utah, it's all fine. There are apps we use, like iOverlander and FreeRoam. Both apps are an absolutely incredible value; they have thousands of places you can look up with reviews and photos. You have GPS coordinates and everything is in one app. In New Zealand, there's another app called CamperMate, which is for New Zealand and Australia, and it's the same system.
Suzy: I've also heard of Harvest Hosts. It seems like there could be a cost involved, though.
Björn: Yes, Harvest Hosts, we also used that one five or six times. It's also a great resource because you can book online and find places on wineries, golf courses, or even in private driveways. Typically, the membership relies on you staying for free, but then you buy some stuff from them, like homemade bread or cheese, or whatever the farm or winery has to offer. So it's a give and take.
Suzy: I like that even better. Do you have any tips or tricks that you've learned to save money while traveling?
Björn: I think one of the biggest things we are not spending money on is food. We are always preparing our own food and not eating out at restaurants. That's one of the biggest savings, I would say. Accommodation and food are the biggest blocks of your budget, for sure, and there you can save a lot of money.
Suzy: Absolutely. Have you been tempted though to sometimes experience a local cuisine?
Björn: Sometimes we just fell for a pile of pancakes, or in some places, it's not even possible to prepare your own food. In the middle of the city, you're strolling around, and then you think, "Okay, it's noon again, we have to find something to eat." We can't avoid it all the time, but we try not to make it so often. Especially in the US, the cuisine is quite fast-food heavy, so we try to avoid that as well. In places like New Zealand, they also don't have a very big local cuisine like in Italy, so their most popular meal is fish and chips. Nothing I must have every day.
Suzy: What are some of the joys of planning and thinking about long-term travel? And then we'll talk about some of the challenges.
Björn: I think the biggest joy is spending so much time with your kids. We wake up, we have time with them, we go to bed, and we can just spend the whole day exploring nature. We are quite active, so we try to hike a lot. I think this is our biggest benefit from traveling. Here in Germany, we have a house with a small garden, and sure, we can go outside when the weather is good, but it's nothing compared to having long, 8-10 kilometer hikes with the kids to a waterfall and bathing in waterfall ponds.
Suzy: My husband grew up in Germany, so he does joke that it's not about the weather, it's about what you're wearing. But living in Spain where we can be outside year-round makes a huge difference. What are your tricks to getting your kids to hike up to 10 kilometers? We are not quite there yet.
Björn: When we started our world trip, our son was two, and he was able to maybe walk for 500 meters. After our world trip, I think the longest hike we had was 14 kilometers in New Zealand to a waterfall, which took about six or seven hours. I think the key is to insert snacks all the time, every half an hour. Snack time, sit down, have a rest, and just keep it easy for them. Try to entertain them a little bit, make some games, or tell them about the plants or the surrounding area. Then they are more likely to cooperate for longer hikes.
Suzy: Those are great suggestions. Snacks for the win. What are some of the challenges, either from your last trip or as you're getting ready for this next long leg of travel?
Björn: I think the biggest challenge is to be flexible with your schedule or your plans. You can always plan ahead to a certain level, but you have to be flexible because something won't work out as planned. We had some situations on our last trip where we had Airbnbs that weren't looking very good, so we had to change places. The biggest thing on your travels is you have to be adaptable to new situations, for you as a parent and also for the kids. The first thing you have to think about is keeping the kids happy because if they're not happy, then you are obviously also not happy, and it makes the whole situation worse.
Suzy: Very true. What does a typical day look like?
Björn: On our last trip, our kids weren't in school, so we had a little bit more time. This time, we plan to wake up and have breakfast quite early, around seven or 7:30. Then we want to have a routine with schooling for maybe an hour or an hour and a half, and then go explore whatever the place is offering us. We are also quite strict on planned meals; at 12:00 or 12:30, we need a good meal. After that, it's maybe driving time to go to another place or just having more time to play with the kids in the evening. They play great together, and they listen a lot to audiobooks. It's kind of a normal day.
Suzy: Tell me some of the resources that have helped you in terms of being on the road long-term.
Björn: It depends on which type of traveling we are doing. When we are RVing, the biggest resources are the apps for overnight stays and Google Maps. We look everything up on Google Maps. We use Instagram quite a lot to be inspired by others, and we do markings on our Google map—we have 500 markings already for the US and Canada. If we are not in the RV, like in Asia, I think the biggest resource we used was TripAdvisor. The last thing we did on TripAdvisor was a cooking class in Thailand, and we also looked up an elephant sanctuary. I think TripAdvisor is also great for families.
Suzy: Great. And you're offering a new resource soon. You want to tell us more about your app that you're working on?
Björn: Yeah, sure. We found ourselves in the situation where we thought, "How great would it be if we had a map where you can see other families with like-minded people and same-aged kids?" Maybe there are some families just around the corner, and we could just catch up, have a coffee, and the kids could have a playdate and socialize. There isn't an app or even a website of this kind available. So, I started to develop one with a very small team—just one developer. We are in the final stages of development now and are ready to launch, hopefully in two or three weeks.
The app will hopefully help a lot of families find other families to chat. You can upload pictures, scroll in the timeline, and even add your routes for the next month or so. Then you can see where others will be and maybe catch up if it aligns with your travel plans.
Suzy: It sounds very useful and very needed. I agree, that's one reason the Facebook groups are so popular, but you miss things in there. What will the app be called?
Björn: Linkease.
Suzy: Make it easy to link up.
Björn: Yeah, hopefully.
Suzy: That's great. I will look forward to when it comes out. It sounds like you could put in where you're going and you would have a family profile with your family's information?
Björn: Yes, you can put up photos of your family, your kids if you want, and your interests. You can put up your routes and your next destinations. You can also filter the map for these interests, country of origin, language spoken, or next travel route. There are lots of filters to be applied, and then you can just look on the map and see where the families are.
Suzy: We're very excited to see that come to fruition. Anything else that you want to share?
Björn: Apart from our own app, we are using Instagram. Our username is @littletravelfamily, so anyone who wants to follow our travels can. It's in German; my wife is the active part of Instagram. So yeah, if you want, just follow us along the road, and maybe we can catch up in the US or Canada.
Suzy: And tell me a little more about your travel podcast.
Björn: We started that one last year in November. We thought about what else we could do to inspire families. Back when we started our family world trip, we inspired a family friend of ours, and they decided to go on the same world trip—same RV, same shipment to the US. They decided and made it work in three months.
Suzy: That's impressive.
Björn: Yes, absolutely. Then we decided, "What can we do to inspire others even more?" I'm a videographer, but I don't want to spend a lot more time on videos than I'm already doing for my business. My wife listens to podcasts, so she said, "Let's do a podcast and just talk about and interview other families." So we started our Nomad Kids podcast on Spotify. It's in German, but we interview one long-term traveling family every two weeks.
Suzy: The families have been mainly other German families that you've connected with before?
Björn: Yes, it's mainly German-speaking families from Austria, Switzerland, and Germany.
Suzy: It's great to have different options to connect with people. Tell me where people can connect with you if they want to learn more.
Björn: First on Instagram, @littletravelfamily. Then we also have a website, nomad-kids.de, where you can also find the podcast. It's on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and all platforms where you can listen. And also Linkease for the app.
Suzy: Thank you so much. I appreciate you coming on.
Björn: Thank you.
