Suzy: Welcome to the Wander Worldschool and Slow Family Travel Podcast. Today I'm joined by Anna. Welcome to the show. Please tell me more about you and your family.

Anna: Great, thank you so much for having me. My family and I started our slow travels back in September of 2024. We were really looking forward to exploring more and had our eyes set on Central and South America, but we quickly realized we needed to change paths. It was a little more expensive than we thought, and we had a budget to stick to since we don't have an income right now other than one rental property in Arizona. So we changed paths and now we're in Asia.

Suzy: So you switched over to some of those more budget-friendly destinations.

Anna: It made a big difference. Mexico was just a little bit cheaper than the U.S., and then we looked at Patagonia and I was like, that's just going to blow our budget right now.

Suzy: You're traveling with your husband and two children that are under five. Where are you guys from in the US, and what were you doing before you decided to take a gap year?

Anna: We were living in North Carolina for the past two years. Before that, we were in Arizona for eight years. For the past 10 years, my husband and I have both been working as physician assistants, and that was a grind. We were going through 2020 with COVID, and the hospital system had blown up. I did trauma critical care, and he's done ER. We were both like, "Where did our time go?" We were working around the clock, day shifts and night shifts. During 2020, my husband really got into reading books about finance, and we realized we needed to buy back more of our own time. So, we really did this to buy time for ourselves.

Suzy: I'm also a nurse in Colorado and I went through the same journey where 2020 was hard and I said, "Okay, I need to take a little step back." I have zero worries that I will not be able to find some type of work in the future, so it makes it easier to take some time off. So you guys saved up and then took off on this gap year. When did that planning start?

Anna: I think more of it started probably the year before. We went to South Africa and spent a couple of weeks there, and I was like, "I think we need to spend more time here. What are we doing just spending two weeks here? This is ridiculous." There's so much to see even just driving along the southern part of South Africa. At that point, I realized we needed to figure something out. We really dug in deep, looked into our finances, and said, "Okay, let's start telling people slowly." We wanted to buy our time and then figure out what we could do to make this really happen. It's scary when you're walking away from everything and you have to tell everybody, and they're like, "Are you crazy? What are you doing?"

Suzy: Did you have some family that had some questions or concerns at all?

Anna: Absolutely. My mom and my husband's family were the same way. Everybody's supportive, but at the same time, they're like, "What are you doing? This is so off the wall. It's so different. I don't understand it," which I get. It's not the usual go-to-work-until-you're-retired-and-then-go-travel. I'm like, no, it's different.

Suzy: It's one reason I wanted to do the podcast. Once you start traveling, you actually meet other families that are doing similar things. It's nice to know that it's not so foreign, even if it is for some people. We all get to decide what's best for ourselves. What have you found to be most beneficial during this time off traveling together as a family?

Anna: I think the most beneficial thing has just been that we have gotten this time together. My children have gotten really close to one another; they enjoy playing together now. I have also had time for my own personal growth to focus on myself, which is amazing. I have time to do something for me, and that's more than just an hour workout or sitting on my porch reading a book. I get way more time to invest in me and in my children.

Suzy: That sounds lovely. We'll definitely talk more about where you are currently, but let's actually step back a moment. I'd love to hear more about your personal travel origin stories, such as your earliest travel memories or how your upbringing shaped your desire to travel now.

Anna: My travel when I was little was just local trips. My mom really took the time to take us to Ocean City every year, and that was something that I just enjoyed. It's this little beach town in Maryland that everybody went to, and it was just a fun place to go. We just got time together for a week and I enjoyed that. I didn't do anything international until I met my now-husband in 2014. It was really small and local and just about spending time together as a family at the beach.

Suzy: Are you drawn to beach and warmer locations now?

Anna: Don't hate me, but I do not like sand. I'm not a fan of it. I enjoy the beach because my kids like it, but if I have the choice, I just don't like the sand.

Suzy: I actually hear you. I feel like we go to the beach and then there's sand everywhere for days. My favorite combo is a pool near the beach because then at least the last thing you do is dip in the pool and it doesn't make it into the apartment. You mentioned that you enjoy planning trips. I as well find just as much joy from planning sometimes as taking the trip. Tell me more about what trip planning looks like for you.

Anna: I pull in a bunch of resources to figure everything out—from blogs, travel chats, and Google to figure out where the sun is, where we can chase the sun, or find a shoulder season. I want to avoid the major rainy season. I probably put a lot of it on an Excel sheet and we look through it and figure out the best place to go because we have to stick to a set budget. If it doesn't fit, we can't do it, or the money will be gone and then we have to go home.

Suzy: It's a balance of extending the travels and filling it with things you enjoy doing. Let's talk about this current trip you've been on since September. Fill me in on where you've been.

Anna: We started out in Mexico for about two and a half months, and that was probably our most expensive part of the trip because we had no idea how we were planning and spending. We were just acting like it was a vacation. Then we went to Guatemala, which was great. After that is where we shifted gears and we flew over to India for two and a half months. It was complete cultural craziness, totally different. Everybody calls it an assault on all the senses, which is kind of what it felt like, even though it was amazing. Then we went over to Vietnam, Laos, Thailand, and now we're in Java, Indonesia.

Suzy: After this, where will you go before you head back to the US?

Anna: I think we're going to go to Malaysia for two months and then we'll fly home from Singapore.

Suzy: How has the planning for this gap year been? How far ahead have you been planning your travel?

Anna: I feel like I've had to go back and forth. I liked it when we were going month by month, especially if we're already in a country. But sometimes we've had to plan farther out if I've needed an onward ticket for a certain country. Indonesia needs a ticket saying you are leaving and they want a copy of that for your visa. Other places don't care, which gives us an opportunity when we're done to say, "Where do we want to go next?" So I keep going back and forth, which luckily my husband's very pleasant about because I keep changing where we're going. He's like, "Okay, if you say so."

Suzy: He's along for the ride and you're taking the lead. What are your goals for your journey?

Anna: Our biggest goal was to go more off the beaten path. You have everybody who goes to all these Instagram-worthy places, and when you go there now, they are full of tourists. The culture just feels like it's kind of gone away, or the locals have moved out. There's so much tourism, it just didn't feel like what we were going for. We wanted our kids to meet people and to see how other people actually live, other than in these high-priced tourist places. I really aim for off the beaten path, which has led us to India and Vang Vieng in Laos—places where I just was like, "Let's just go see what it's like." And it's been so nice.

Suzy: I would love to hear more about India. Where did you spend the most time and what would you recommend if a family is trying to get out of those busier areas?

Anna: In terms of India specifically, everybody knows the Golden Triangle where it's Delhi, Udaipur, Jaipur, and the Taj Mahal. Those are the big hits. We went south down to Kerala for a month, and that's this green place that can be by the beach. Even people in India say that every hundred kilometers, it's a different culture, different people, different food. So you can go anywhere and you'll just meet a whole new culture. We did Kerala and then we went up to the regular places like Udaipur and Jaipur, and we still massively enjoyed all of that.

Suzy: Is there a favorite memory so far on your trip?

Anna: It was really neat when we got to go to the Taj Mahal. My little kids got to go see one of the Seven Wonders of the World and they had no idea. They didn't get it. They're just like, "This is cool, but really, what's the big deal?" I'm like, that's cool. They have no idea it's a big deal to them, but they're still here and they're still enjoying it.

Suzy: The photos look amazing.

Anna: It is massively impressive. I thought it would kind of be whatever, no big deal, another tourist thing. No, it's amazing. The colors are amazing, the symmetry is amazing. You get to walk into it. This was made so many years ago and is still absolutely beautiful.

Suzy: There can be a balance. Right now we're living in Spain, and there's a lot of conversation around over-tourism. I get why people want to go to the Sagrada Familia in Barcelona. My suggestion is, yes, go to the things that you want to go to, but at the same time, maybe spend a little less time there and spend more time somewhere else to experience something you wouldn't have even known Spain can offer. It's about striking a balance, and I think slow travel affords that. What do your kids think about traveling so far?

Anna: My kids officially think they're not from the US anymore, which I find hilarious. My three-year-old says she's from Mexico, and my other one just thinks she's from another country too. I was like, great. I love it. You guys are already loving the world the way it is.

Suzy: Global citizens. Learning and experiencing cultures can take all different forms on a trip. What's the learning been like for you and your family on this journey?

Anna: Sometimes we try to take the approach where we'll go somewhere ahead of time and see a really cool tourist attraction. Then we'll come home and talk about it or look it up on YouTube to learn more about it. That way they can be like, "I saw this, I touched it, I got to walk around it," and then I get to see what the history was about. It really helps pull it all together since they're not in traditional schooling yet.

Suzy: YouTube has been great for that because there are always so many videos that just supplement it, and they can either be really kid-friendly or short enough that a young kid can be engaged. You mentioned some of the financial aspects. Behind every trip is the financial and logistical side. You mentioned you're funding your travels right now through savings. Tell me a little more about that and any financial advice you have.

Anna: When we decided we wanted to do this about a year ago, my husband went ahead and made a separate high-yield savings account that we were able to put money into every month. When we got to a year, we had this money set aside. We were able to save $100,000 to fund our year of travel. We were also renting out our house for the time being, but we sold it in December once we realized that renting wasn't going the way we wanted it to. We just let it go, which added back into our pot.

For anybody looking into doing this, the thing that my husband and I feel really helped us is to get realistic with your finances. We all just kind of use ATMs or credit cards, and money is more of this abstract idea; you don't hold it or watch it go anywhere. So just being realistic makes a better idea. Make an Excel sheet. Say exactly what's going in and going out, how much is left at the end of the month, and what you can get rid of. That way you know what you're realistically spending or what more you can save.

Suzy: It's all about getting started and being clear on your priorities. You've used some credit card points and other ways to cut costs as well.

Anna: When we went over to Delhi, India from the United States, we used points to get there, so that ended up being completely free. Otherwise, that would have been thousands of dollars. And going back home from Singapore to the US, we're again using points. Otherwise, it's too expensive to fly halfway around the world.

Suzy: Yes, it can add up, especially with a family of four. What has been helpful for you in terms of budgeting for accommodation costs?

Anna: I would love it if we could go on Facebook and find a rental, but I don't feel like we're there yet since we're only doing a month at a time. So I'm still using Airbnb, but I find that if I at least book a month at a time, I can get discounts. Even if I message the person and kindly ask if they would give a discount, without any expectation, usually they're like, "Absolutely." If you're staying for a month and you have good reviews, they're happy to give you a discount, and that's been really helpful.

Suzy: To get a better idea of your spending, you spoke about your month in Vietnam. It looks like you spent about $3,030 for the month, which is amazing for a family of four. What did that include?

Anna: We have our Excel spreadsheets; my husband tracks every single dollar, which is amazing. In Vietnam, we split our time between Hanoi and Cát Bà Island. Our stay in Hanoi cost us about $1,200, and that was all in a homestay. Cát Bà Island was like $122 for four nights in a hotel. For groceries, we spent about $300. We didn't do too many markets there, but groceries weren't too expensive at all.

For restaurants, we went out of control because the Vietnamese food is so good. Between the cafes and just their food, we spent $400 there, which is the most we've spent on restaurants, but Vietnam was worth it.

Suzy: It was worth it.

Anna: For transportation, we honestly used Grab mostly, which is the big app they're using, so we spent about $270 there. All of our fun activities were $290. For healthcare, we use SafetyWing, and that makes both of our children free, so that's like $130 for the month. We also did some shopping for clothes because we needed new clothes, and that was $100. Oh, and our visa. We got a one-month e-visa before arrival, so that was $100.

Suzy: Looking back at this budget, what worked or what would you have seen differently?

Anna: I think everything in Vietnam made sense. The reason I shared this specific budget with you is because I was so happy with how it looked. If I look at my other ones, sometimes I look at India and a lot of our spending went towards accommodations. I look at Laos, and that was like $70 per day. But in Vietnam, we lived a great lifestyle and we didn't spend that much. So I'm very happy with this budget. I don't know if I would change anything. Maybe the shopping for clothes; we spent a good amount on that. My husband was like, "What were you doing?" I said, "I don't know."

Suzy: But sometimes it's nice to mix up what you're wearing since you're probably wearing the same things over and over. It's amazing to hear these numbers because for many families, they can easily spend that on just rent, and yet this is an entire month of living. It shows that sometimes slow travel can extend the trip longer and keep those costs low.

Part of keeping it real is understanding that there are sometimes challenges with long-term travel. What are some of the things you've experienced?

Anna: The biggest thing for us is always when we're settling down in a new place; it's like you're moving into a new house all the time. You have to figure out where your groceries are, where you're going to buy food, what the transportation system is like, and what haggling or negotiating looks like. It's a new system every time you go somewhere, and you just have to figure it out. That takes a good week.

Suzy: Have there been any accommodations that didn't work well for you that you had to switch on the fly?

Anna: I always put the same criteria in, but I do not always get the same results. When we were in India, we stayed in one place in Delhi for a week and I stuck it out, but it was a bad idea. It had no windows, which is terrible for jet lag, and it was cold. We were under blankets the whole time. This place had 400 reviews and the pictures looked cool, but it was not what we needed. If we had to stay there longer, I would have been like, "We need to leave." So you can use the same criteria, but it doesn't mean you always get the same results.

Suzy: In those situations, how have your kids reacted?

Anna: I like to think that they're still oblivious to it because they don't say much. Luckily they've just been like, "Where's my toy? Where's my Yoto player?" They just want to play with something and read a book. Meanwhile, my husband and I are like, "This is not fun." The kids are up at 3 AM because they have no idea what time of day it is because there are no windows in this place.

Suzy: Thankfully kids are very adaptable. To talk about the wins of family travel, what are some of the positive things that are working well for you?

Anna: I think the biggest thing for us is that we've done this full-time with two little kids under five. Like you said, small kids are very adaptable, which is a huge win for us, even though they have hard times like any kid does. We've done it on a budget. We set a budget, and we've been able to stick with it. And we do not have a set itinerary. I love that we've been able to do it and just be like, "We're here long enough, we don't need to set an itinerary, and we can still enjoy this."

Suzy: I love it. That sounds like some awesome ways to stretch a comfort zone. You also had some unexpected challenges just recently.

Anna: Yeah, she got her foot stuck in the spokes of a bicycle she was riding on the back of. Immediately, my husband and I looked at each other and were like, "It might be broken." We had to find a hospital in Thailand, but the healthcare was great. I was so happy with it. We have in the back of our minds everything that we expect from healthcare. You have a plan, professionally, where you need to do X, Y, and Z. They were already doing it. I was like, "Thank you." It's just the standard of care, which I love.

Suzy: I think it is helpful to have a bit of a medical background when traveling. Your daughter was lucky to have both of you and be in a place with great healthcare. I had to go to the hospital in Thailand many years ago and it was very impressive and affordable. I even remember going to the hospitals in Phuket and Joint Commission had a plaque there. Sharing resources can be very helpful for families. What resources have you utilized?

Anna: We pull in a lot from other resources. Two big ones that I enjoy using are GlobeTrek, which I look at for weather. It tells us shoulder season, high season, "do not go here," and it's color-coded on the map, so it helps us know where to go. The other one, since we were learning how to navigate the train system in India, which we did horribly at when we started, was The Man in Seat 61. He knows every train system on this website, and I was like, "Yes, we know what we're doing now."

Suzy: I have heard of that one, and trains are so awesome, but it can be a learning curve. You mentioned Die with Zero, a book that I also read. The "seasons of life" part has really resonated with me, especially with kids. There is a season with a five and eight-year-old that will never be replicated, so it's important to take advantage of those opportunities. You also have an awesome blog I was looking over. What is your writing process?

Anna: I'm glad you love it. We're on the third time redoing the site. We actually gave it to somebody else because we were trying to put a shop on there, so they're going to do it for us. I think they're going to use Astra on WordPress or something like that.

Suzy: If people want to connect with you more, where can they learn more about you?

Anna: The things that I use the most are my Instagram and Facebook, it's @wanderless.hawks. Then my blog site is wanderlesshawks.com. We've been doing a good job keeping it up to date so far with everything that we've done, just to try to tell everybody about our travels.

Suzy: And you also have a free ebook. What would someone find in that?

Anna: I made this ebook because it's something that I wish we would have had when we started out. It tells somebody about the visa process, how to start a high-yield savings account so you know exactly what we did to build it, and how to get your Airbnb or rent a car abroad. Renting a car abroad is not easy; sometimes there are weird processes involved, and sometimes you can get scammed. So it's just giving people these tools that I really wish we had. It's all free, just to give everybody the push to start.

Suzy: Sometimes that's all it takes is some guidance to get over those intimidating parts about planning. I will make sure to link all of those in the show notes. One more question, actually: where do things go from here? You sold your home.

Anna: Yeah, all of our family is in North Carolina, so we're going to go home and rent there over the holidays. My daughter's like, "I need to have my birthday at home." Okay, fair enough. And then I think after that, we're looking into extending the long-term travel and maybe doing like three months at a time. Let's go slower than this month-by-month pace because setting up all the time is starting to chew away at us. We need to go slower.

Suzy: Yes, I find a lot of families get slower and slower. At some point, you're like, "Wait, we haven't left in a while," but that's okay too. I'll have to check in with you in a year or so and see where your travels take you. Thank you for sharing more about your trip.

Anna: Thank you. Stay in touch.