Suzy: Welcome to the Wander World School and Slow Family Travel Podcast! Today, I'm thrilled to have Daniela joining us. Daniela, welcome to the show! Please tell us more about you and your family.

Daniela: Hi, Suzy! Thank you so much for having me, for having us. My family is outside right now, so it's just me today. My husband, Fernando, and I started traveling 15 years ago. We're originally from Venezuela, but we left in 2011 with the dream of traveling the world, and that's exactly what we did as a couple.

When our first child, our daughter Bianca, was born, people thought we'd stop. But we wanted to include her and keep going. So instead of stopping, we made a slow transition. We bought a camper van when she was one and started traveling with her. We spent three years traveling through Europe. In the middle of that trip, our second child, Lucas, was born on the road! We went back to Spain for a little "base camp" with the kids, and we've been traveling for the past six years.

Currently, we have a base camp in Vietnam, which we love. We host what we call "hubs" there. We do worldschooling hubs on an island called Phu Quoc in Vietnam. That's been our focus for the past two years in Asia, especially Vietnam.

Suzy: How exciting! I'm eager to learn more about your worldschool offerings, but before we dive into that, I'd love to hear more about your personal travel origin story. You mentioned leaving Venezuela many years ago, but what's one of your earliest travel memories?

Daniela: Okay, so when we got married, we were really young. We traveled around our country, went to the Amazon, and did all these jungle adventures and crazy things that are better to do without kids! We traveled to around 40 countries, just the two of us. It was amazing.

Suzy: There are definitely trips that are much easier either without children or especially young children. Remind me, what are the ages of your children again?

Daniela: My kids are six and four. Bianca is six, and Lucas is four.

Suzy: Mine are similar, five and eight, so in that same range. I can relate to some of the joys and challenges of traveling with children. It's definitely different from our travels before kids, but it has its own joys as well. You mentioned some of those early travels; how has that shaped your travel philosophies now that you have a family?

Daniela: It's crazy because we've always traveled as backpackers. We don't use suitcases. We never did, and we thought, "Okay, now that we have kids, things are going to change. We need so many things!" But that's the one thing that hasn't changed. We've kept the same minimalistic approach to our travels. We only have three carry-on backpacks and the laptop we need for work. We've learned that you don't need much in terms of clothes or material things. We can always find what we need wherever we go. For me, it's been impressive how we've managed to integrate our kids into the same way of traveling.

Of course, you need more planning. You need to find more places. Before, it was just us looking for museums or restaurants. Now, we need to find playgrounds! "Where's a playground?" We need to find places for the kids. So that's the main change: it's more about them than us, honestly.

Suzy: What are some of the highlights from those three years in the camper van around Europe?

Daniela: We loved Portugal. We also really loved Slovenia, I would say, because we're all about nature. We appreciate cities and capitals, but they feel too busy for us. So we truly love nature, and Slovenia was one of the highlights of that trip.

If we talk about experiences, I'd say France was memorable because that's where we found out I was pregnant with our second child. It was crazy! It was during COVID, and we were in this old camper van from 1982—it was older than us! But I was pregnant. "What do we do? Do we go back?" You know, it was a crazy time during COVID. But we kept going. When I look back, just the experience of being pregnant in a different country during COVID was truly crazy, but it was beautiful. It was also nice to have those moments to share.

Suzy: Was he born in a country in Europe along the way?

Daniela: In Spain. My husband is half Spanish, so we all have Spanish passports. Spain is like our home base. We had Bianca in Granada, and then we said, "You know what? Let's have him in the same place, the same hospital, because if we need papers, if we need anything, we need to go to the same place." They're both from Granada, Spain.

Suzy: Ah, and you know, we live about half the year in Seville, so we've been to Granada a few times. It's so beautiful with the hills and the mountains. We even skied once. So yeah, it's a beautiful place to be, especially with newborns. I'm sure it's nice to be somewhere familiar.

Daniela: Mm-hmm.

Suzy: Let's see, we were just talking about Europe. But you have many connections with Europe. Where did your love for Asia come into play? You've been spending time there and running pop-ups.

Daniela: When we were in our mid-twenties, around 25 or 26, we wanted to do something exotic. People ask us if we've traveled South America, and I mean, it's a little embarrassing, but we say no, even though we're from Venezuela. It's just because it feels similar. If you go to Colombia or Ecuador, for us, it's the same food, the same people, the same language. So, what felt exotic was Asia.

We went to Asia when we were in our twenties and just fell in love. We're still so connected to Asia—the people are so kind, and I don't know, the food, the culture. We felt a strong connection. We went back to Europe because we were working, having kids, and so on. But one day, I remember we said, "Why don't we go with the kids?" We had this feeling that maybe it was the time, maybe we should go. And we sold the camper van and went. It felt the same.

Okay, I'm not going to lie, when we landed from Spain to Hanoi, it was crazy. Like, "What did we do?" Because it's chaotic. You know, the traffic and the motorbikes—it's chaos. But then, months later, my husband and I sat down and he said, "You know what? I'm going to tell you something. The first day we landed, I regretted it so much." And he was like, "Me too!" But we didn't say anything at the moment. We kept going, and it was the best decision.

Suzy: Those first couple of days can be very tough. That's one reason I like slow travel and traveling for longer periods of time, as it gives you more time to adjust. What are your goals for traveling as a family or as an individual?

Daniela: So, okay, in this first trip we did to Asia, which I consider was our first family trip as a four, we had a four-year-old and a one-and-a-half-year-old, and it was challenging. At the beginning, we made a lot of mistakes. The first mistake was trying to see everything in a short amount of time. We were like, "Okay, let's go to this place for three days, and then this place for four days." We were moving so much. The kids were exhausted. We weren't in a good dynamic. That's when we said, "We need to stop. We need to really enjoy the places. The kids need to rest, have a proper routine," and so on. That's when we decided we'd start spending about two or three months in each place.

It changed so much. So I'd say our goal now isn't just seeing places, but also having a good experience as a family and having harmony and balance between food, sleep, and everything else. That, for me, is the most important thing right now.

Suzy: Absolutely. It's a balance between all the different people involved in a new environment. Finding what works best as a family can be a bit of a process. Is there any favorite memory from your recent travels that you'd be able to highlight?

Daniela: Oh, so many! I'll tell you that my favorite memory was in Indonesia, in Gili Air, which is part of the Gili Islands. We were there, and we got to swim with wild turtles. I would say that's one of the highlights, and one of the things my daughter remembers the most. We just walked from the shore and could see the turtles there and swim with them. It was amazing. So that's the top one.

The second place would be seeing the Southern Lights in New Zealand. That experience was unexpected. We weren't looking for them; they weren't supposed to happen where we were at the moment, and it happened as a surprise. It was "wow"—the most amazing night ever.

Suzy: I have yet to see even the Northern Lights, so I can imagine how interesting it would be to be way far south and experience those. I know you mentioned your kids are still a little young, and they've been traveling for almost all their lives. What do they think about traveling?

Daniela: I don't think they see it as "traveling" in a way that this is their life. Sometimes, the other day, we were talking, and maybe this is just too normal for them right now. I don't think they feel that surprised. But for example, when we were in New Zealand, we spent eight months there, which is a long time for us to be in one place, but we loved it so much we just couldn't leave. And Bianca came to me and said, "Mom, when are we changing countries? We've been here too long. I want to go to another country." It was like she was telling me, "I want to go to the other town." So for them, the world is just their playground. They don't feel like, "Oh, we're traveling." They just feel that this is a normal life: moving from country to country, experiencing, and meeting people. I don't think they can compare it to having a life with a routine versus just traveling all the time.

Suzy: You bring up a good point. Sometimes I think about what our kids think when they're traveling and going to new places, and I don't expect my kids to be grateful every day and say, "Mom, thank you for showing me this amazing location." I more look for clues that they're enjoying where we're at, or when they say, "That was really fun." This is a good sign. What does schooling and learning look like for your family at this stage?

Daniela: Well, our kids are really young, so we're just starting with, let's say, the traditional schooling. For example, Bianca is six; she knows how to write and read because we do these basic things. But I always tell people that what she's learning during our trip has so much more value. We were learning about volcanoes in Yellowstone last week, and we were learning about mammals and animals by looking at them. "Look at this bison! Look at this wolf!" For me, it's just about learning in the moment, where we are, about geography and the environment. Probably later, we'll find more resources, but right now, they're very young, and we do it very casually, just learning about the environment and the places we're in, and what they're really interested in.

Suzy: I love the concept of learning where you can see what's happening in front of you. Having volcanoes in Yellowstone sounds like a great example. You mentioned that you have some worldschool opportunities around the world. Can you tell me more about those hubs?

Daniela: Yes. So, the idea of Better Together was born in New Zealand. We were there for eight months, just the four of us, meeting casually, doing casual playdates on playgrounds. But the kids got bored. They were bored, and we had to work and entertain them and be teachers and be their friends. It was hard. At one point, my husband and I kind of gave up and said, "No, we need to go back. We are too tired. This is too much on us."

But then we said, "Let's try something else. Let's try finding a community." We were looking, researching, and there wasn't something that we could relate to. We didn't find something that was what we wanted at that moment. So it was a crazy idea, and we just said, "Let's create one. We can do it. We've been traveling so much. We're a family. We know what families want."

We started thinking about our favorite place in Asia that would be good for kids and families, and that's when we chose Phu Quoc in Vietnam. We went there, and I always tell people that I remember this movie—I don't remember the name—but there's a line that says, "If you build it, they will come." It's like Field of Dreams or something like that.

Suzy: Field of Dreams.

Daniela: At the beginning, I was like, "Who's going to come? This is an island in Vietnam!" But then we started seeing that there are so many families who feel the same way. We started doing it, people came, and it's just our way of life right now. It is the perfect balance: being in a place that we love, in a place where we feel comfortable. We love Vietnam, and it's still about having people around and meeting people from all over the world and different cultures.

Last year, we had our first season. We did six hubs in Vietnam, one each month. We welcomed more than 70 families in total, 71, from so many places. It's just something that we love so much. We said, "Let's just do it again." And now we're doing it again, but this time we're also including, well, last year we did a pop-up in Japan, which we love as well. And this time we're also including Spain. We're going to Spain to visit family for about three months, and we're going to take two weeks to do a hub in Granada. We'll combine it with Spanish classes because we're Spanish teachers. That's what we do; we teach Spanish online. We said, "Let's just do like an immersion program, a Spanish immersion program where kids can learn in the morning and then go out in the afternoon." Yeah, we're going to have a second season of the Better Together hubs from September until May next year.

Suzy: That's amazing. Which months are you going to be in which location?

Daniela: The Granada Hub will be at the end of September, September 25th. Then we'll travel to Vietnam. We'll start October, November, December in Vietnam. We'll have a break in January and February because that's when their New Year is; they call it Tet. It's super busy. We tried it last year, and it was too much, so we said, "Let's not do it during the high season." And then we're back in Phu Quoc for March and April. Those will be the last two in Phu Quoc. In May, we'll do Osaka, Japan.

In Osaka, we have this Japanese family we're really close with. We stayed with them for three months the first time we went, and this past time we went for a month. So we do activities with them. They are the ones who do calligraphy with us, cooking classes, origami. Because we experienced this Japanese culture with them, we wanted to show it to the families as well—not only being tourists in Japan, but experiencing what it's like being with a Japanese family. So we are repeating that as well in Osaka in May.

Suzy: I was just at a pop-up, and there was a family that spent about two months in Japan, and they said Osaka was one of their favorite places. So I can imagine that would be a lovely place to share time with other families. From this last year of hubs, which sounds really busy if you had over 70, 75 families together, is there a memorable moment that comes to mind that you'd like to share?

Daniela: For me, the last hub we had was in April. It was the busiest. Before, we had 10, 12, 13 families, but we could see how it was growing. I remember sitting down one day and seeing all the families—we were 20 families in April. Seeing all the kids playing, and we had like women's circles, and we were going to yoga, and parents were going for beers at night or having pool tournaments. Everything is beautiful, but just sitting down and saying, "Wow, we built this!" I don't know, it was so rewarding, and people coming to you and saying, "This is so nice. It's such a safe place for my kids, and they're having fun." I don't know. It's just that feeling of saying, "There are so many people that feel like us, and for us to bring them all together here." We felt, I don't know, "Wow, this is something special." It was really an accomplishment that we felt at that moment.

Suzy: A lot of planning goes into putting this together, and then to have families enjoy it is, I'm sure, a lovely feeling. What were the ages of the children during the different hubs last year?

Daniela: We've had all ages, from babies—obviously they were with their parents—but in the activities, kids from like, three years old to 15 or 16 was the oldest. We always noticed that there are always about three groups: let's say from two to four, and then five to seven years old, and then the pre-teens and teenagers. So we do activities for all of them. We try to focus. For example, for the younger kids, we focus more on crafting and coloring. But since we've had older kids later, like in February, March, and April, we had a lot of teens. We started doing the social project. So we were helping an association for kids in Vietnam who are in an underprivileged situation. We were going with the kids from the hub to teach English, and we were doing fundraising fairs to raise money to bring food and clothes and stuff. So we have kids from different ages, and we focus on different aspects they need. For us, pre-teens or teenagers are not just tourists in a place, but they learn about the needs or the troubles of things, not only in Vietnam but all of Southeast Asia, like plastic pollution. So we focus a lot on that.

Suzy: Great. And is this more of a drop-off hub where the students are in a classroom or are the families working together, or is there an option for both?

Daniela: So, last season we didn't have a drop-off option, and families kept coming to us and saying, "When are you going to open a drop-off option? We need it!" Because like us, my husband and I both work online, and sometimes it's hard. You know, I'm working, he's with the kids; he's working, I'm with the kids, so the other one is stressed out. So we didn't have a drop-off option last season, but we are doing it right now. We spoke with the woman from the hotel. We all stay in the same resort, so that's the main thing: we have the community in the same resort. The owner is super open to having families. So I went with her and I told her, "What if we build a room, like a classroom, for the kids where they can play and we can do science?" And she said, "Yeah, let's do it!" So for this season, we are having a drop-off program where kids from three to nine can be in the drop-off program. The teenagers can be on their own at the hotel, but the drop-off program will be in a special place in the resort.

Suzy: That sounds great to have that opportunity for kids to do kid things and parents if they need to work. It gives families a little bit of a break and kids to have some independent time. I appreciate you sharing a little more about how you juggle the logistical part of working online, teaching Spanish, with parenting. You said a lot of it is trading off time with Fernando. How do you fund your travels through online Spanish teaching? Tell me more about that experience, because I've taken online Spanish classes through Italki. I've also done Preply. I'm curious to hear from your side what it's like to teach online.

Daniela: When we first started traveling, we were just kids, and we were working in every place we went to. So when we were in Dublin, we were working in a store, and we went to Spain, and then we were working like collecting fruits. So we were doing anything to get money, basically. But then we said we needed to find something on the internet.

So, I mean, I was working at the reception of a hotel, and when people heard me speaking Spanish, they would come and say, "Did you teach me?" So I was the receptionist slash Spanish teacher in the hotel. And that's when I told Fernando, "We have something that is valuable and many people would like to learn, and it's Spanish. We didn't do anything; we just have it. Let's use it." And that's when we started. We did a master's to become teachers, and we have been doing it for seven years.

I would say the trickiest part is finding good internet. When you have the responsibility, everything has to work perfectly. The internet has to be good, so your students don't say, "You know what? I'm going to get a teacher with a house that is not moving around the world." And also, it's hard because for them, they're in the same house, with the same internet, and you are the one changing. Sometimes, for example, in New Zealand, it was super challenging because the hours were crazy, and we had to be like, "Okay, having a class at midnight, having a class at five in the morning," because you cannot tell your student to move their schedule. You have to adjust to them. But I'm actually right now at one of my students' houses. She invited me. We are doing this trip around the US. We have been doing a trip around the US and we have been visiting families from the hubs and students. So we have been staying, we have been like a very social trip.

Suzy: That sounds amazing to get to connect in person with people you've taught online and then spend time with in Vietnam. That's awesome. Do you, as someone who's taken online language classes, is there anything that we should know? Are there certain companies that you'd recommend more than others?

Daniela: Okay. Okay. I work with Verbling. Berlitz is really good. Berlitz is really fair, and it's a good platform to work with. I was working with Italki, but Italki kept raising the fees for teachers, and right now, it's not worth it. When it comes to apps, because everybody does Duolingo—every time I open a class with a new student, I say, "Have you studied Spanish before?" "Oh yeah, with Duolingo." I'm like, "Okay, that's not it." It's just like playing, but people don't really learn with Duolingo. So I always tell them, "You need to find something that teaches you grammar and not only playing. You can get vocabulary, but no, you will not learn with that."

Suzy: Is what I've thought of it. And I stopped using Duolingo because it was just getting annoying. I wasn't learning anything that felt useful for having real-life conversations. And I realized that that really comes from having actual conversations with Spanish-speaking teachers, whether that's online or in person if you can arrange it. So I'm glad you're doing the opportunity in Granada to have the language piece of it, because I do think that that's one reason we've landed in Spain is really focusing on language acquisition at this age for my children. They are soaking up languages, and I really want to have that strong foundation. Do you speak Spanish as a family, and then they get English when you're in English-speaking countries? Or how have you balanced language teaching for your children?

Daniela: This is funny because when we left Spain, obviously they only spoke Spanish. Bianca was four and a half at that time. And we started traveling, and we were like, "Okay, you need to learn English. We need to be English teachers, even though it's not our native language, but we need to teach them how to communicate." And Bianca was like, "No, I don't want to learn anything. People can speak Spanish to me." And I said, "No, but okay, you will see it. You'll find out on yourself." And we landed in, so after we did the first trip in Vietnam, we landed in Thailand, and we met this really nice English family, and they had a six-year-old girl. Bianca was trying to play, and obviously the girl didn't know Spanish. And that is when she realized she needed to learn English.

So what we did is that we invested like six months and we did everything in English. So if they wanted, "Mom, we want to watch a movie," it had to be in English. "But we don't understand." "I'm sorry." They only got a few hours a week of screen time, but every time they did, it had to be in English. Everything. The stories, the bedtime stories were in English. And so we spent a lot of time with this English family. Within two months, our kids were speaking English, and now I have the opposite trouble: now Lucas speaks more English than Spanish.

Suzy: Wow, that's fascinating to see that evolution. That's inspiring. I think there are families who are maybe nervous about incorporating a second language, especially if it's not maybe a language native to either one of the parents. To know that it doesn't take maybe that many months of immersion to kickstart that learning journey and having that motivation from her to make a friend that speaks English. I can see how that can really get a young person inspired to spend more time in a new language. I think there's an appeal to teaching a language online. Is that enough to be able to fund your travels? And do you recommend people get into that if they don't necessarily have a background in teaching a language? English is a sought-after language. Would it be the same thing for someone who teaches or knows English?

Daniela: It is very good. We live, like we travel and lived just teaching for seven years, even with the kids later on. So it is like, we have, I have students that have been with me for almost five years now, and this student that I am with right now in her house, she has been with me for two years. So, if you have people that are constant and they want to be with you, then you have a steady income. The thing is that we don't know about anything else. We don't know about software or developing, or we are so bad with technology. This was the only thing that we naturally have.

What I would say is more difficult about English is that the people that would like to learn English, people from like South America, Asia, I will say that the incomes are not so high as I will say in Australia, the US, or even Europe. People that are learning Spanish, they could afford, let's say, pay for higher rates in classes than the countries that are learning English. I don't know if it makes sense.

Suzy: Salaries are higher than in places like Latin America or Asia or Africa, and it's a reality. So people that are learning English, it will, I think it will be a little bit harder. I don't know, this is just my perception of things, but I can be wrong.

Daniela: Yes.

Suzy: Any other financial advice to others looking to start traveling more?

Daniela: We always tell people that it's not about how much you make, it's about how much you spend. So in that way, we don't buy souvenirs. We understand that it's about the experiences more than the things that we buy. If we were to do this staying in hotels all the time, we wouldn't be able to do it. So what we do is that we always find alternative options. If you go, for example, to places like Japan or Australia or New Zealand or the US, there are so many tools right now, like house sitting or Workaway or couch surfing, and we have done them all.

We have done them all. In Japan, we did couch surfing, and that is how we found the family that we stay with. They were just a Japanese family that wanted their kid to have more cultural exchange, and they were happy to have us there, and we were cooking with them and eating with them. In the end, I will say that it's even nicer doing this than staying in a hotel on your own. The other day we were in a house sit in Utah, and the neighbors came, they introduced themselves, and we told them our story, and they were like, "Wow, do you want to come for dinner?" And so when you do these things, you save money because you're not paying for accommodation, which is the highest expense that you can have. But then you meet people and you get to experience what it's like having neighbors and living with a family that has a different culture. Don't be afraid of sharing time with the locals and using these tools.

Suzy: I love that. I did couch surfing many, many years ago in Istanbul, Turkey, and just had this amazing experience with the woman I stayed with that we kept in touch. So I kind of forgot about that as a resource. You also mentioned earlier you travel quite light, which sounds like it helps save on money by not checking bags. This last trip, we did have to check a bag, and it adds up quickly. Are there any struggles or challenges that you've been experiencing with your hub? And then we'll also talk about the positive things.

Daniela: I mean, I will say, um, it's a lot of work. Obviously going to a country where it's not the same language, not the same culture, not the same... We have faced many challenges. Like I'm a person that has to be on time for everything, and if it's five minutes before, you are already late, you know? But this is an island life, and people are relaxing, fishing, and living a relaxed life. Our main goal is that when people go there, they don't think about anything, because traveling is so stressful that when families go to the hubs, the goal is that they just relax and enjoy, and we take care of everything on the back: transportation and all the activities and entertainment and so on. So it's a lot on us. But especially because when things are out of my control or out of our control, it's hard calling the transport and saying, "What are you? You're five minutes late!" "Oh, sorry, I was, I don't know, talking to my wife here." So this challenge of organizing is a lot. It has been a lot. So it's stressful, it's rewarding, but it's very stressful. I won't lie.

Suzy: Do you feel that going into your second year of planning these opportunities, has it been a little smoother?

Daniela: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Even the first month, like we had, let's say we had October, November, December, then we took a break, and then we started again. And it was so different. Like my first approach, you know, with the locals and stuff. And the second time I was like, "Okay, you need to be here at 8:30" when I knew we needed the transport at 9. So I started, you know, planning in advance and understanding how they work and how you need to be respectful in this way. And right now, we're like, we understand them so much. It's so much easier. It's so much easier. Yeah, of course.

Suzy: And what resources have been helpful for your family? Either for your family traveling or for your hub?

Daniela: We're really bad with technology, really bad. We only have our Instagram and we don't do it very frequently, but we use the typical tools. We use Skyscanner or Google Flights. And then, depending on the country... so Asia, the thing with Asia is that you feel relaxed because you can stay anywhere. So, let me put it this way: if you, let's say, go to Bangkok or a place in Thailand, you know that hotels are all affordable, and so you can choose. You're like, "I'll stay here, I'll stay here, I'll stay there." So you have a lot of options. What we like about Asia is that we feel like the money that we make, we can enjoy it. We can do so many things that we just feel economically relaxed. But when we go, for example, to places like Australia, New Zealand, the US, if you miss having like one day or two days and you have to pay for hotels... it happened to us the other day. It was like $150 for one night, that is a week in Asia or 10 days! It is so cheap. And so we had to plan with Couchsurfing and TrustedHousesitters and Workaway with a lot of time when we go to these, let's say, more expensive countries.

Suzy: I agree that price differences can be shocking from country to country and can certainly help your money go further in certain locations. What are some of the price points for the hubs in Vietnam? Does it depend on the size of the family or the accommodation needs?

Daniela: Yeah, we have an adjoining fee. It's 500 euros per the whole family, and this is for families up to three kids. So, let's say a family of five. After that, it's $100 per kid. But this includes all of the activities, all of our organization, and just being part of the community. We have an itinerary of about three to four activities per day that people can choose from to participate or not. And we have yoga, pickleball, Vietnamese classes, or different activities every day. We also do excursions. We go to the water parks, we go to the amusement park, the bee farm. And then families can choose which one they want to go to or don't want to go to. But yeah, we only have one joining fee. The accommodation is in a resort, and we have a really good deal with the owner. When people write them on our behalf, saying, "I'm coming for the hubs," she drops the price a lot, and that will depend on her. But yeah, it's very affordable to be there for a month or two weeks, three weeks.

Suzy: Do families get to decide maybe how long they come for?

Daniela: We don't, but we have specific dates. So for each hub, let's say, for example, in March, we have from the 5th of March to the 25th of March. So this is three weeks. You can come for as long as you want, but the joining fee is the same. The only thing is that if people stay for more time in the resort, then it would require them to join the next hub. So if people stay for the next, for April, let's say for the next month, then you will have to be part of the hub as well. So that is the deal that we have with the owner.

Suzy: I think it's helpful when there is some structure to it that families plan to start around the same time. It gives you longer timeframes where the families are together. The kids can build more connection with each other. This has been really great to hear more about your family, your travel adventures—very exciting! And then also the opportunities that you offer between Vietnam and Spain. Where can people find you to learn more?

Daniela: Our main social media is Facebook. We have a group; it's called "World Schooling Hubs: Better Together." So the name of our hubs is Better Together, so that one: World Schoolers Hub, Better Together. And there we post everything, all the information. We also have a website: . And we have an Instagram with the same name: @BetterTogetherHubs.

Suzy: I'll make sure to link all that in the show notes so people can reach out to you to get more information.

Daniela: Thank you so much, Suzy, for having me. We just... I love speaking about traveling and giving tools, and if it helps somebody to lose that fear of going out with your kids, it's possible. It's beautiful and it's not easy. You have to be a 24/7 parent, entertainer, teacher, but it's the most rewarding experience you can have as a family.

Suzy: That's lovely to end on. Thank you so much.

Daniela: Thank you, Suzy. Thank you so much.