Suzy: Hola and hello, I'm Suzy and welcome to the Wanderer World School and Slow Family Travel podcast where we discuss the stories, logistics and finances of long-term traveling families and the multitude of ways to learn and world school along the way. Today is the fifth Thursday of the month, so we get a very special bonus interview.

Today I'm joined by Mark, my husband. We will discuss his childhood in Germany, how he ended up in Spain, and his thoughts on world schooling. Thanks for coming to the podcast, Mark.

Mark: Hey, Suzy, I'm excited to be on the podcast.

Suzy: Happy you're here. So Mark has a fun background story. He was born in Germany, has two older siblings and a wonderful mom Astrid, my mother-in-law. He has an interesting story about what brought him to the US and kept him in the US for a while. But I'll let you tell your story, Mark.

Mark: I was in 10th grade and I decided I wanted to do a study abroad program. So after 10th grade, I decided to go to the U.S. I decided I want to ski and snowboard and ended up in Colorado with a single host father and, it was, everything was great and awesome. And, my mom heard that I had a good time and decided to visit us over Christmas. She hit it off really well with my host father and they fell in love and then they got married a year later. And then I never went back to Germany.

Suzy: When you came over, you probably would not have ever expected that to happen, right?

Mark: No, absolutely not. I mean, today we're pretty much like a modern day Brady Bunch. My stepfather, now my stepfather, he has five kids. I'm one of three, so we're eight. So when we get together, it gets pretty wild. I definitely did not expect to go on a study abroad and gain five more brothers and sisters.

Suzy: Yeah. And I love it. They're an awesome family. And we were just in Berlin visiting with our kids' cousins over there and aunts and uncles. And then we actually are in Colorado and just spent time with some of those cousins over the last few days. So I love the story. You have a great family. Very happy to be part of it. I want to go back to your childhood in Germany though. What is a core memory or a feeling that comes to mind when you think about your childhood in Germany?

Mark: I grew up in a very small town and I remember vividly riding my bike around town for hours and coming home late at night. But in the meantime, I would have visited all my friends. I would say a very peaceful childhood.

Suzy: How many people were in your town that you grew up in?

Mark: It was 40,000, but we were in a small neighborhood near that town, Kleve, or Cleve, like Anne of Cleves who married Henry the eighth.

Suzy: And there's a lot of millennial nostalgia for the life of biking around town for hours. So I think that's kind of fun to realize that that's what other teenagers back then were doing in Germany as well, not just here in the US.

Mark: I'm not even saying teenager. I mean, that's the difference between Germany and the US or maybe old time USA where I was six, seven, eight years old and my parents would just send me outside with my bike and say have a nice day. And I remember one time I got stuck in a tree with my leg and the neighborhood had to saw down the tree to rescue me, which I mean, rescuing is maybe an exaggeration, but people would solve problems as they come up.

Suzy: That is adventurous. Presumably, you got down. Okay.

Mark: Yeah, after they cut down that tree a little bit.

Suzy: So you moved to the US when you were 16, right? Or was it 17?

Mark: I was barely still 16.

Suzy: And what was the biggest culture shock for you when you first moved to Colorado and started school in the U.S.?

Mark: Well, Germany and the U.S. are plenty similar. I don't think I've really experienced a culture shock. I've had culture shocks before, but surprisingly not when I came to the U.S. But I remember commuting to school from far away in the U.S., taking classes all day in English and participating in sports every day. And that seemed more like a full-time job compared to German schooling. I had a lot more downtime in Germany.

Suzy: So like in Germany you had time to bike around and get stuck in trees and in the US it felt like you were a little more involved in school and go-go-go with different activities and events.

Mark: Yeah, competing for the school spirit and the school's pride. There just wasn't any of that at a German school. In the U.S. you would represent the school in all your activities, chess or sports, drama, you know, whatever it is that you did. And yeah, so it seemed like a job.

Suzy: I think that's interesting because I know the high school you went to is pretty small. And so even there, they had that culture around representing the school and maybe competitiveness that you feel like was not really part of your schooling in Germany.

Mark: Maybe even more, right? I mean, small schools try to stand out. For example, our school would talk down on other smaller schools; you would always try to stand up.

Suzy: There's even more reason to try to be proud of your school when it was smaller almost.

Mark: My school in Germany was huge. For German standards, it was big. It's about four times bigger than the American one. I only know American school life in a small school with 200 students.

Suzy: True. And you experienced formal education in both Germany and the US for both high school and university. What's one thing from the German school system that you wish kids in the US could experience?

Mark: I did appreciate all the rigor at German schools. But I would also say that it's not as enjoyable as the American system, maybe for the same reasons. It's rigid and rigorous schooling. So in contrast to the US system, you know, the US system promotes broad liberal education with greater flexibility. It seemed like in Germany, you would have to work hard to get on a certain track, to get on the high university track, and you didn't want to fall behind to potentially miss out on an opportunity to go to college. For example, I had to reach a minimum GPA to even be admitted to my exchange program in the US. So there were always a lot of benchmarks along the way.

Suzy: Was that also the same for university? Because you did an undergrad degree in the US and a master's in Germany. Do you feel like there were those similar differences in terms of rigor and the US system being a little more enjoyable, a little more flexible?

Mark: Yeah, that's a good question. That's very similar because the German university system would not have allowed me to come back because they didn't accept a US diploma. So my few options were staying in the US and paying the expensive US tuition or going by myself to the Netherlands where they would accept a US diploma. So in the end, I said, fine, I'll apply to the University of Colorado. And if they don't take me, I'll go to the Netherlands, which you know, Netherlands is awesome and fun. So that would have been a good plan B. I got accepted to the University of Colorado in Boulder. And so yeah, so I stayed in the US.

Suzy: I think the funny part is, if I had gone to CU Boulder, which for a while was my first choice university since I grew up in Colorado, there's maybe a chance we would have met because your step-brother was also going there. We would have been in the same program. But I ended up going to Wyoming and we didn't meet for like another decade or so. So I think it's just interesting how things work.

Mark: That's really funny, I think we would have been best friends.

Suzy: Best friends. I think we were so different probably in college though. Who knows? It would have been interesting though.

Mark: We would have gone to my brother's college parties.

Suzy: Yeah, I would have remembered every one of them then. So how do you think growing up between two different cultures? I mean, you mentioned the US and Germany are similar in some ways, but they are still different cultures. How has that shaped your perspective on traveling and also raising our kids abroad?

Mark: Since we don't really have deep roots in either Germany or the US—I mean, by definition, roots would keep you in one place—I want our kids to take advantage of that freedom and explore the world. I mean, we're essentially, you know, world citizens, which means they can cry in three different languages, but in an accent that's better than mine.

Suzy: Very true. You're right. You obviously spent many years in Germany, but then really haven't spent a ton of time there as an adult. And then in the U.S., you've been in different locations. Colorado has been mostly our home base there for quite a while, which is a great state. We love it for lots of reasons. But there are so many awesome things about getting out and exploring the world, too, especially for kids who are young and flexible. And I know my listeners have heard my reasons for starting this journey, but I'd love for them to hear yours. What was the tipping point? You know, so we first went to Spain about two years ago. What was the tipping point for you that made you say, yes, let's trade our stationary life in Colorado for one of travel?

Mark: Yeah. I mean, I know you have traveled a lot and I did love traveling before we got married and had kids. And then we spent 10 years in Denver and I just felt like it was time to move on again. I just got bored in Denver, and Denver is an amazing place, Colorado in general, right? We love it here. We love doing all these things. It was just time to see something else. And then when you mentioned going to a Spanish speaking country, it's like, okay, cool. We both speak Spanish and it's important. And I heard Spain has beaches and I like beaches and I romanticized about Spanish food and wine. Little did I know they drink more beer.

Suzy: And that the food is not our favorite.

Mark: Hey, that's a secret. Nobody needs to know that.

Suzy: Yeah, I mean, it can be good without being your favorite.

Mark: There's only so many tortillas, which is that Spanish omelette with potatoes, you can eat in a day.

Suzy: Or as our son calls it, the yellow cubes.

Mark: Yeah, because they cut them into little cubes.

Suzy: Let's be honest. What was your biggest fear, though, or your hesitation when we first moved to Spain? I know you were excited about it, too. But what was a hesitation you had and how does that fear or hesitation look to you now?

Mark: I was worried if the kids would be able to keep up in Spanish school. That was really it. I was not worried about traveling. I've done a lot of it. The kids had done traveling. It was pretty much everything surrounding the school. Also, how would we be received and would we understand the school system? It was all so new. But in the end, those worries weren't warranted because everybody was extremely welcoming at the school in Sevilla and the community is great. The parents are fantastic. It was, yeah, sometimes you just make up certain fears that don't come to fruition, luckily.

Suzy: That first day dropping the kids off at a school where I was like, hmm, they don't really speak the language of everyone there. Now the German part they spoke, but at the same time, the other kids were learning German. I was like, what did we just do? But they've adapted as well. I think between the three languages, the kids definitely got by before they were able to pick up more Spanish.

I am ever in awe of people like yourself that speak three languages or a lot of the people around Europe that even speak more. It's gonna impress me. But from your perspective, what has been the most challenging part of choosing to live outside either of our home countries where we grew up?

Mark: It's navigating the bureaucracies of traveling, obtaining visas, getting your registration, getting your bank account, getting your phone line. I would say sometimes it can take a solid three to four months before you have all your ducks in a row. And then on top of that, you're trying to make friends and have fun. And it's just sort of like bureaucratic speed dating in a different country.

Suzy: Very true. And I would say we even had the easy button, I say, when we went to Spain because you have EU passports. So it just was more of a logistical hassle in some ways. And we also outsourced it. We hired a great immigration lawyer to help with it. So really we just had to get her what she needed. So I can only imagine there are other countries, other circumstances, other people that have encountered even more bureaucracy in Spain and elsewhere that I just can't imagine what that stress is like.

Mark: It's funny because we have different experiences and stories because I remember we started out together working with a lawyer. The lawyer would set out the plan and for two months I would go to this immigration office or local registration office. And they would tell me, you need this form. And I fill it out and I go back and they go, you also need this form. And just like week after week, they would tell me I needed new forms. And then finally I had all my forms, got my registration done. Then you could finally do your part.

Suzy: And for context, that took about five months from starting to when I got my residency visa. So it's one of the reasons that once we did all that, we're like, we need to take advantage and stick around Spain for a while longer.

Mark: No, that is so right. You said, let's go to Mexico now. And all I could think about was the visa process and whatnot. I was like, please not.

Suzy: Yeah, maybe someday it's still on my radar. For you at this moment, you have a remote job that is a non-negotiable when it comes to needing fast, reliable internet, which is definitely something that has come up for us before to make sure that we can have that in place because that is really important. So how does that requirement impact how we choose our destinations and accommodations, especially when we're doing a little more mobile travel than when we're just in Spain? How does that workout for you?

Mark: I can't, for example, spend a whole week in a camper van. And in Airbnb's, I need a small office. Also, some vacation homes sometimes don't even have internet. Remember that last beach vacation that we did with my family?

Suzy: Yes, in the south of Spain. I remember also one time when we were in Yellowstone on that big Canada road trip and we thought you could work from the lodge in the middle of Yellowstone, which did not have any internet.

Mark: Yeah, it's stressful sometimes. You guys are out there expanding your horizons and I'm wondering if I packed my ethernet cable. Even though you are a remote worker, you still require a desk in a quiet space. Yeah. I traded an office for a zoom call where I hope that there's no crying child in the background.

Suzy: For sure. I'm trying to make sure that I pick places that accommodate you and it's not always easy. But I appreciate your flexibility when needed.

Mark: You're doing a great job with most of the trip planning. It's just, it's a learning experience, right? You're used to a certain setup at home, an office space. You know what it takes for podcasting, you like to have your setup and so on. It's very similar. And then as you travel, you realize what you have maybe lost. I mean, you have gained all the freedom of travel and exploring the world, but you still need to find that quiet space where you can concentrate and do your job.

Suzy: I think that's a metaphor for parenting is that it's going to be a little messy trying to mix in work and travel. And how do we keep every person happy while also, you know, choosing to live the life that we've been living where we do travel, we do spend time out of our home countries. It's just not always perfect, but it's a work in progress.

If another parent was thinking though, like, I work remotely, I want to spend more time traveling. What's one piece of advice that you would give to that parent?

Mark: I would say you can't always do everything with your family, potentially, when they're out and about going to museums and so on. So find your own experiences in the neighborhood, like a good coffee shop or do a scenic jog, walk around. Sometimes you just have to do things by yourself because maybe the kids are in school or, you know, maybe you're on a time zone where your work starts later. So try to get in some sightseeing in the morning with the family. Then you go to work and they will continue.

Suzy: The schedule that you typically work when we're in Spain from like noon until nine with usually a break for dinner actually works pretty well because you do get that time in the morning. And then in the evening we're busy and then the weekends we have all day off to do things. So I love this schedule where we can do weekend adventures, longer weekend trips or you take some time off when we do like Morocco or things like that. But for the most part, we have a pretty good family routine with school and adventuring and you working seems to work really well.

Mark: I like it too. Taking the kids to school in the morning, then heading to the gym, getting breakfast, all that before my work day even starts. It's amazing.

Suzy: Yeah. And there were so many of those perfect, sunny, late morning coffees that we could just relax and enjoy right by the school or by the gym or by our new apartment. So I love those. From a financial standpoint, we've been on this family money journey for over a decade now. And we've been married for almost a decade. But kids and traveling adds additional layers to the money part of it. You know that I'm the one that tends to track things financially and nudges us in our shared goals, even though of course we talk about them together. What's been the biggest surprise or adjustment for you in managing our budget or our expenses on the road versus when we were living in one place beforehand?

Mark: Cutting back on certain luxuries, like not always having a car can be a challenge sometimes. It's also fun because I remember at the end, I had to go to the grocery store and we didn't have a car anymore. So I just started renting bikes. I was like, okay, I'm going to give this a try now and at least I have the app now. But yeah, you just try new things. Cut back by cutting back on transportation pretty much. You know, opening new credit cards for airline points. I think we're doing that more now than we did before. Of course, we just open them and then we close them. We don't really accumulate any debt on it, which is a good thing. And then if our kids are learning bad words in a foreign language, at least it didn't come from us. It's also a big surprise. They're picking things up from all over the place. And it's in a different country in a different language, in an accent that's probably way better than mine in the authentic Andalusian.

Suzy: The palabrotas are what they call bad words, their cuss words or whatnot. And you realize, so there are times that I may not know that they're saying one of those words because I don't even know what it means. How has traveling full time changed your role as a papa, as a father?

Mark: I'm a lot more present and living near the school definitely helps with that. Having more family time is a huge win. Not having to commute. That goes also back to the remote work. A lot of it can be also achieved if you stay in the US, I think. But being in a new time zone helps. If you usually work in the US and now you work in Europe, you have more time in the morning for the kids. Whereas in the US, your work schedule competes with the kids' school schedule. So you're always overlapping.

Suzy: I do agree that cutting out a commute, whether that's just remote work or living really close to the school in Spain, which I just love like a four minute walk to school, that is so much easier than navigating sometimes those longer commutes in the US that just really suck time out of your day and time together as a family.

Mark: Because everything you do is intentional now. You pick the school that you want, you pick the apartment near the school based on that. You make sure there's a gym, you make sure there's a coffee shop. You're putting a lot of thought into your life for the next two weeks, month, two months, six months, a year, whatever it is. But it's very intentional and you're trying to make it the best experience you can have in the time that you have. So, whereas if you are at your old apartment or house in the US or wherever you live, you've accumulated certain habits and routines for over 10 years. And yeah, they're hard to shake off. And so you're just in the same rut for a long time. And by going to Europe, you just release the shackles and you just do it all the way you wanted to do it.

Suzy: It's like throwing everything up in the air and then making it land how you want it to land instead of you trying to fit into the pieces and the parts of the big puzzle that is living in the US. I also think that like when we did the pop up in Sarajevo, we picked a place that was pretty close to it. So you're right. Like when you travel, you can be more intentional about consolidating the most important things that you do during the day to a certain location and it just frees up mental space and time to really enjoy that time together. And if we ever did more like a gap year or longer term traveling I think we would be able to choose where we live and how we do schooling and stuff. And it would be kind of the same as what we're doing now in Spain. And that just ease and that proximity, not that travel is always easy.

Mark: Exactly. If you make a mistake in your planning at your permanent home in your permanent city, you can't easily backtrack on it. That's often a decision you have made for the next year. Whereas if you make a mistake traveling, then you screwed up for a week or two and you can learn from it and improve on the next stage, right? Yeah. You live and you learn is a lot easier to implement and live by when you're traveling than when you are at home and you have all these things established.

Suzy: Absolutely. I think even from last summer when we did a little more fast travel around Europe, around Germany and Switzerland and trying to have you work a little bit there, we adapted a little more this summer and in Berlin had a much better apartment, hopefully at least a better office as part of it. It was still a trade off because it's a big city and it wasn't huge, but yeah, we live and we learn and we can pick better places next time and keep making improvements to what we each need to be content with our lifestyle. Yeah.

Mark: Three stars in Morocco, like a three-star hotel in Morocco is maybe a zero-star hotel in reality. They're making stars up as they go.

Suzy: Yes. Yeah, some of the places I picked were great and some were not so great.

Mark: Yeah, it's all part of the adventure.

Suzy: I have to make sure the kids don't get too soft on us and only long for a life of luxury. They have to stay in some pretty shady places every once in a while to appreciate the nice ones. But speaking of...

Mark: Shady places as well. Speaking of shady places, that was in Laramie, Wyoming. Any hotel in Morocco is still better than the Laramie Inn.

Suzy: I know that was so bad.

Mark: Sorry to all the listeners from Wyoming. You have some terrible hotels.

Suzy: I spent four years in Laramie, went to college there. So I feel like you're right. We can knock on them a little bit. But no, that hotel is terrible. There are probably some nice ones somewhere there. Just not any right by the highway. So what's a skill that you've seen our kids develop, though, since we moved to Spain and started traveling more that they probably would not have picked up or learned if we had only stayed in one place so far in their lifetime? What's the skill that they've picked up?

Mark: I think they have an appreciation for learning many languages now. They've definitely gained that. They're not just surrounded by, I mean, in Sevilla in Spain, they go to school and they learn Spanish and German and soon also English. I mean, they all have English classes as well. But on top of that, they like to listen to the Eurovision Song Contest and all the songs and that it's in many different languages. So when you've seen them sing along to Icelandic songs and Italian songs, and it's just cool to see. It's amazing. Yeah, and our oldest child, he wants to go to Italy now because he loves pizza so much. All these things where I just don't think maybe we never instilled that same excitement for States here in the U.S. I don't know. Just never heard him say, man, I can't wait to go to North Dakota.

Suzy: And sorry to the North Dakota listeners.

Mark: It's beautiful. We've been there. He just doesn't say it. Yeah. He asked when we will go back to Florida, but...

Suzy: Mm-hmm. That's when I can say, "Never." I'm just kidding.

Mark: Yeah. Apologies to all the Floridians. We can't ever come back here.

Suzy: We're making everyone mad. I know. What's a thing that you learned about me or our partnership that you might not have learned otherwise if we hadn't also opted for more travel?

Mark: You're an amazing trip planner with a vision for new and exciting locations, I would say. You're also very, yeah.

Suzy: You read my notes really well. I'm just kidding. Keep going.

Mark: Okay, okay. I mean, also an amazing podcast. Yeah. To all the listeners out there.

Suzy: Yes, for sure. Yeah, no. Go give me five stars. I'm kidding.

Mark: It's the best. Yeah. Are you on Google?

Suzy: No, Google doesn't do podcasts. It's just Apple and Spotify and Pocket Casts and a lot of other ones.

Mark: Yeah, I listen to you on Pocket Casts.

Suzy: Yes, it's the best podcast player.

Mark: Oh, you're also very good at managing our rental home in the U.S. from Spain and dealing with all the craziness. Yeah. When things break and things do break sometimes. Yeah. So it's, yeah. You're, I mean, you are a world travel podcasting manager and I love how you spend most of the time with the kids so I can work when I have to work. Yeah, just amazing.

Suzy: Wonderful. I'll make sure to highlight this part and save it forever.

Mark: You can include that in the podcast.

Suzy: Okay, great. And now we're managing our Spanish rental from the US and no, it's not always easy. I wouldn't say it's my favorite thing, but it is just a logistical part of choosing to travel that I've realized it's worth it to us to still have to deal with some of these things to have the freedom and flexibility to travel and be out of the US a lot of the year. And it's also gotten a little easier just getting into habits and finding the right people. And I certainly vent to you and get your opinion. And I do get you involved quite a bit.

Mark: This is interesting. We are subletting our, we're not just managing our Spanish rental, we're subletting our Spanish rental, which is, I think it's like next level traveler. Yeah, very meta.

Suzy: Very nice. Have a rental and then be renting that out.

Mark: To return back to the US.

Suzy: Yes, where we haven't even been into our home yet. Yes.

Mark: Which is like we're living in some sort of parallel universe.

Suzy: Yes, and we have people from the US there for sure.

Mark: And people from the US living in our sub-let Spanish rental.

Suzy: And dealing with all the communication with our landlords in Spanish and paying them and dealing. Yes. But, you know, again, I actually really like our place now in Spain. It makes me excited to go back. So it is just part of the process. Managing multiple places is not always easy. And, you know, I think there are people in the world schooling and family travel world that have thought about this as well. And I want to explore more of these places where you can buy or co-live or something and have more stability. Like you only go a couple of places around the world, but then you kind of go back to your place, but maybe not the same level of managing. So I'm going to look more into that just because I'm curious. But what advice would you have for families who want to be more nomadic? They want to world school either full-time or part-time. What would you tell them before starting out?

Mark: Your plan will never be perfect. You just need to go. We had so much doubt before we left. Of course it was easier for me because I lived in Europe and so it was a little bit like coming home, but still, you worry about your house, your apartment, your belongings, and all those things where to put them. Should your house be rented out? Should you sell your home or maybe your lease is still running and now you have to wait until your lease runs out in the U.S. or wherever you're coming from. And, once all the stars are aligned and everything falls in place, just go if you have set yourself the goal of going and leaving and living in another country.

Save up some money to make it a little easier while you're there. Which is also a thing, you know, we've seen it. On one hand, I'm saying just go, but I feel like there are some essential things that you need to have figured out. A, where's the money coming from? Do I have enough money? And for that, you know, I guess they could talk to you because you're such a financial trip planner and you laid it all out for us. So I think you're the perfect person to talk to about this. But yeah, just have all your ducks in a row. Not all the ducks, but have all the important pieces together. Where's the money coming from? Where will you live? And what do you want to do while you're there? But then just go.

Suzy: Yeah. No, I think that's a good balance. Like there are certainly things that have to be squared away a little bit, but then don't overthink every piece of it. At some point you do just have to go because you're going to figure it out on the way. You're going to learn on the go what is best for you, what is best for your family. And we've pivoted a lot and I think people are just forced to make different changes, but you really don't know until you go. Yeah, the first time we left, we were still putting a new toilet in from a basement flood like four days before our flight to Spain. So the plan will never be perfect, but...

Mark: But we still decided to go.

Suzy: Yeah, we still decided to go.

Mark: Because I said, even if this toilet is not installed by the day we leave, we'll find somebody who can do it. You know, like later or whatever it is. And I don't know if it's a sign, but the basement has not flooded since we left. Yeah, so maybe it's better that we're not there.

Suzy: That was a lot of stress. But yes, get a few things in order and then just hit the road and go. That is great advice. And as we continue this journey, what is a dream or a goal that you have for our family's travels in the next few years?

Mark: Settle down in Spain for a few years and then explore other parts of the world. I think that would be amazing. I think I'm ready for more sun in Spain again and then exploring cool places.

Suzy: What are some other places in the world that you would like to take yourself, take me, take the kids?

Mark: Let's back up. You took us to Morocco and to Albania and Montenegro and Bosnia. I never thought in a million years that I would visit any of those countries anytime soon. Never really. Didn't even cross my mind, but those have been some of the most amazing places I've been to in a long time. Definitely opened up my mind. Yeah, Morocco for all the cultural and socio-economic differences was eye opening. I want to go back to your question. I think the kids and I and you, I think we're all on board. I want to go to Japan.

Suzy: Yeah.

Mark: For the culture, the food, the sightseeing. I would love to go back to Australia and see the West Coast.

Suzy: Perth. That's where my aunt and uncle spent like two or three years teaching way back in the 70s. I can just imagine how they must have felt like they were at the end of the world going there, you know, before all the modern day ways to stay in touch and how remote it feels even now, but even more so then.

Mark: We just can't shake off that arid landscape, Colorado, Andalusia, Morocco, Western Australia. Maybe we'll go to a place with trees.

Suzy: I mean, that's one reason I do love Germany, I think. I'm like, it's so green here. And then it rains and you're like, I see why. That's a trade off.

Mark: Yeah. I mean, yeah, you never asked me early on. Maybe we need to start this podcast over. You didn't ask me why I left Germany.

Suzy: For a study abroad.

Mark: Why did I want to study abroad? Because it was always raining in Germany.

Suzy: Yeah. You wanted to get out of there. I know it's so funny in Berlin, I was the one out in the rain with the kids and our pop up and you were the most aggravated about it. I could tell that it just hits a nerve with you, the German rain.

Mark: Yeah, I was sitting inside working, so I wouldn't even have left. But I was still bitter about 10 days of rain.

Suzy: We had a couple really good days of weather in the pop-up. Everyone is super flexible. That's why I love the pop-ups. Everyone is willing to pivot because it's not any one person's fault that the weather is not cooperating, like that solid rain at the Cordoba one in March was an adventure as well.

Mark: I'm trying to talk the kids into a pre-college in Germany when they're 18, 19. And all I can think about while I talk them into that is the 180 days of rain in Germany, at least in my little hometown.

Suzy: That would be probably the biggest shock for them spending university years in Germany would be the weather, not the language, thankfully, not the traveling around Europe part. It would be the, wait, it's not a beautiful Colorado winter or Spanish winter. Yeah. We should talk about that on a future podcast.

Mark: Should I feel guilty?

Suzy: About all those options. But you have some really good ideas about that. And you really like to tell a lot of people that are approaching university in the U.S. about all those opportunities that are available over there for affordable education, three-year undergrad. So yeah, we'll talk more about that in a future episode.

Mark: Tune in for Mark's German college experience podcast and learn more about how your child or you can spend the college education in Germany for free. You just need to bring a little bit of money so you can pay for living expenses, but you're still allowed to work part-time.

Suzy: So you went from being on your first podcast to now wanting your own podcast. I have done my job. You are convinced to quit your job and join the world of podcasting with me. Just kidding.

Mark: Just stay on the line. My episode is coming, right?

Suzy: Yeah, coming right up. Okay, well, I'm sure I will get you on a future fifth Thursday of the month where we can talk more about all these fun things. So I'll wrap it up for now. Thank you for joining me, Mark. I appreciate chatting with you in this totally different environment than we've ever chatted before on microphones in separate rooms in the same house. But this has been fun.

Mark: Yeah, thanks for having me. I hope to see you again soon.

Suzy: See you soon.