Suzy: Hola and hello, I'm Suzy and welcome to the Wander World School and Slow Family Travel Podcast, where we discuss the stories, logistics and finances of long-term traveling families and the multitude of ways to learn and educate along the way. This week, meet Danielle VanderHuy, a mom who's been nomadic for over three years and recently shifted to full-time boat life. Welcome to the show, Danielle.

Danielle: Thank you. We have been slow traveling for the last four years. We decided when we wanted to kind of go nomadic, we were going to go learn to sail because we never sailed before. We were always boat people, it was pontoons and never anything else. And so it's been a whole new experience. My husband really read a lot of books and we went out, we went on one sunset tour with a captain and he was basically like, go get a small boat and go try it out and see if you like it. And that's pretty much what we did. And we fell absolutely in love with it. We learned on a short 27 foot sailboat, a little monohull. And we upgraded last year to a 41 foot monohull and now have been full time living on our boat. It's been a year since March and we absolutely love it. We bought our boat in Guatemala and we sailed around Honduras and Belize and now we've made our way down and around to Panama and we've been hanging out there for the last half a year now and probably the rest of this year. It's been a really great journey just getting out and shifting into a different mindset and a different lifestyle. We've done where we've lived on an RV. We actually traveled through Mexico before we bought the boat with our minivan for a while and did Airbnbs. And then we came into alignment right at the tail end of our plans for the three months that we had in Mexico. We were able to buy a boat, and since then we've been sailing. And we're looking forward even to getting a bigger boat now.

Suzy: You mentioned your husband, who else is in your family?

Danielle: I have a six and a half year old son named Silas. He is my little wild child because he's just so adventurous and so full of energy. He loves to fish and spear hunt and he's just so much fun. He absolutely loves doing this lifestyle and being on the boat.

Suzy: That's great. When my husband and I were first dating, he had sailed some growing up and we did a sailing trip in St. Vincent and the Grenadines. We were learning the ASA, all that, and it was very rough. We were on an island and he's like, you know, maybe I don't want to sail around the world someday. And I was like, okay, that's good because I'm a mountain girl. I'm not a sailor. So I applaud anyone with that bravery to be out on the open water. It's very impressive. It's beautiful out there. But you do have to know how to get around a boat and how to fix a boat. I think that was the challenging part for him.

Danielle: We each kind of have our lanes. Like I do help out on some of the boat work, but for the most part, he's like the MacGyver fixing everything. I take care of all the food. I make sure everybody's good and all of our health plans and everything that kind of goes along with taking care of the family. I do try and learn so that if something does happen, and of course, like when underway, you have to understand how to pull the ropes and do certain things because the ocean is, it can be rough. We always say with other sailors, there's always a list. Like there's a never-ending list, always something to do, but it's prioritizing what is important and what's not important and what's going to come in the time where you need it to. You always got to know how to fix things because at the same time our homes are moving and when your home is moving on a boat or in a camper, things are always gonna happen. I'm always prepared. We always have tools. We're always on that mindset of what could happen this time. Like, who knows? Hopefully nothing. I mean, always we hope that nothing goes wrong and it's a smooth sail. I mean, even our last sail that we did, we went from Bocas del Toro over to Linton. We were out a couple of hours and all of a sudden a nut in our autopilot came out that holds the chain because we have this autopilot that basically steers the boat while we are under way. And so the bolt came out and the little key that's in that bolt that holds it went out as well. So here we're like, okay, now we got to shut the boat off completely. We got to sit here for a moment. I'm sitting there trying to find the piece and my husband's down below trying to find a backup in case I can't find the piece. And then we finally found it and everything came back into place and we got to keep going. Sometimes it goes smooth like that, it's easy. And sometimes it's like, oh no, something else broken. I remember like the first time we went out on a six hour sail, I accidentally broke the steering cable because I pulled it too hard. And so the first time we go pick the steering cable, he's like, hurry up, grab the tiller and this and that. I'm like, what is the tiller? I don't even know. I was freaking out and it was hysterical because at the end of the day, he's like, you gotta learn these things. You gotta know what a tiller is. It never fails. Like you're always going to have something kind of come up. Sometimes you get really lucky and you have the most beautiful sails.

Suzy: And other times you need to know where the tiller is. And now you won't forget, right?

Danielle: No, absolutely not.

Suzy: Let's backtrack a little bit and talk more about your personal travel origin story. What are some travel memories that you have and then how has that shaped your upbringing?

Danielle: We lived in Southern California and I do remember we used to go out, actually where my parents live now, Arizona, but they didn't really do too much traveling all the time.

Really, I think where my travel got set in was that my husband and I had been together for a while. And it was actually a few years before we had our kid, we started traveling. We went to the big island, we went for a couple of weeks. It was really nice. It was like our late honeymoon. And then the next one we did the following year was to Costa Rica for two weeks. And then we did a backpacking trip from Panama to Costa Rica for a whole month. And in that trip, we actually met one of our really good long-term and travel buddies now. We met him randomly hiking a volcano. And it was such a great day because it was pouring rain. It was like a hard push, you know? And so everybody made it up. But we connected well with him and he actually lived in Austin, Texas where we had some other friends. And so my husband and I went to go visit one time and he had asked us, hey, would you guys like to go hike Mount Kilimanjaro with me? I don't know if I really want to go do that. I don't know if I'm really ready for that.

And we were just sitting there like, you know what, man, if you do all the setting it up, like you do all the plans and everything, I'll just give you the money. Let's just do it. And we did. And it was such an epic trip. We had such a beautiful hike going up that mountain and it was amazing because again, another really big push, we got to base camp and the night before we were supposed to summit at 10 o'clock at night, it started to blizzard. And we have to wake up at midnight to go hike the mountain to be up there by eight, nine o'clock in the morning. So we got to hike up the rest of the mountain in like a full-on blizzard. And my husband and I were the only ones who listened that you were supposed to bring goggles. So we had, thankfully had our goggles. And I remember we got up there because we actually, a lot of our crew ended up, they, they kind of started to struggle. And so I really focused on drinking water and just keeping my head in the game. We got to the top that we thought was the top, because my husband and I split off from everybody, and we found out it was a false summit. And we're like, my gosh, no. My husband was so tired already, but he's like, you know what? Just keep going. He's like, if you walk, I will follow and we'll just, we'll make it to the top.

It was such a beautiful sight to get up to the top. And it was, it was an incredible feeling. You're like, I just hiked one of the seven summits of the world. Like, and I just made it through a blizzard right now. It is, it was such a relief and such a like confidence booster. And so I absolutely fell in love with it after that.

We spent the next two years. We went to New Zealand, we did Mexico, we were hardly ever home. And two years had passed and we had just been traveling so much doing different things. And finally I came to a point where I was like, you know what? I really want to start settling down to where I can get ready for a kid. And so we started looking just a little above California in Oregon and we ended up finding a property and we settled. We built our own house. I got baby fever. So, thankfully the house was ready to move in though by the time that he was walking, so it was perfect. We stayed by for a while and then I finally got this like itch again that I was just like, I really want to start traveling again. And we started with a small little camper that we thought was going to be okay. We took like a month long trip with our son in Montana. And it was so much fun that when I came home, I'm like, I really don't know if I want to keep like staying in a house anymore again. Like, I think I'm kind of ready to, to go back to traveling. I was constantly busy and running around and I wasn't actually getting to spend the time I wanted with my son. I came to my husband and I was like, you know what? I'm done. Like I really just want to go and sell it all. And I just want to go travel again. And that's pretty much what brought us into doing this whole nomadic lifestyle. We found a bigger camper and took off and it just kind of led from there, once you get the travel bug, like it's really hard to not want to go travel again. Absolutely.

Suzy: Sometimes you take breaks because it is okay to slow down different seasons of life, but it always comes back. Do you still own the home in Oregon or did you sell that as well?

Danielle: Nope, we sold the house and everything in it. We can put our investments into other things. So we did a budget boat and we jumped into crypto and we gave ourselves a runway for building other businesses. And now I work online and he does as well. I've had some pivots throughout that, but it's working out and it's getting there. Realistically, I say it took seven years because even though I've been nomads for, we've been nomads for four years, I've been on this digital marketing journey to figure out how I was going to make my alignment work and my businesses flow the way I wanted to and really just be able to do something that feels good to my heart.

Suzy: Do you mind sharing more about what your businesses are and how that's evolved?

Danielle: So my husband is really deep into the crypto. So he focuses on day trading. I actually started with a company called Enagic seven years ago. We sell water ionizers that basically create living water. It basically adds a molecular hydrogen in your water to really help speed up the healing process and hydrate your body correctly. The ionizer also can shift different pHs anywhere from a 2.5 to an 11.0, cutting out a lot of different uses of other toxins like laundry detergents, cleaning our vegetables, healing our body.

So I started with this company seven years ago. But when I bought into the company, they did not teach it as like sharing the health aspect. They were more sharing this opportunity of making money and you can sell, and everything about it felt really icky to me. And it just wasn't really the right mindset for me. And then I went and actually found a couple who was teaching how to build a digital agency. And they were teaching people how to find your niche and how to basically learn to make money with affiliate marketing. So I got into that and I was selling their course for a while. And I did that for about two years and I made some money, but it wasn't really, wasn't anything exciting. And it still, for some reason, wasn't feeling like true to my heart of who I am and what I was doing. So I shifted to a different company, still same concept, was the Make Money Online course that I had followed another mom. So I did that for maybe six more months. I had reached out to a friend who was a travel agent. She actually brought me into the travel agency business as well.

There was still just like something that wasn't fully like aligning in everything I was doing. I believe everything happens for a reason. And I had a friend who was in the world schooling community. She's like, I want to get in because a lot of the reason why that is nice for people who are traveling, especially world schoolers, is that they get the travel agent perks. You can get a lot of things cheaper. And so she jumped into it. And then in January of this year, I actually got my full family got sick from a water bug that we had gotten from the Marina water in Panama. I was not feeling good and she was like, I'm just going to share this with you, but the Enagic company is doing this sale that they've never done before. They give a little cash back kind of thing right now. I've always been into health. Like health has been my, like my go-to for everything. I've had three blood clots. I've always just really loved the idea of being able to help people and making themselves thrive and actually heal their bodies without Western medicine. I'm not the kind of person who likes to go and buy like Gucci handbags and all these other little like trinket things. I'm the kind of person who spends money on all the health gadgets. I decided to reinvest into the company because the mindset was different. I mean, it's a great opportunity to make money, but at the same time, if you're not sharing what it truly is and why it's such a great opportunity, to me, it feels like weird.

And I've been using the water for six months and I've gotten to really like notice a lot of things for myself and my own hydration and how my energy feels and all those kinds of things. And then I came out here to visit family this last month, spending two weeks killing my mother-in-law and getting to see the results of what that did, I knew I was finally exactly where I needed to be. It took seven years to come back around to the right thing, but you know, sometimes we need to go through those journeys of like, trying different things to know whether or not something is truly right for you. I'm able to share this with so many people and I'm able to really like help others. Everybody needs water. Everybody drinks. Being able to invest in something that can really truly change your life on a daily basis to me, that's a whole different game changer. I'm actually working on creating my world school water hub that's gonna bring forth information about the water and also information on the marine life.

Suzy: So your life is water right now. Yep. Water. On the water, drinking the water. I mean, water is super important. It comes up a lot with traveling because I hate to buy plastic bottles. I'm interested in what products I can take certain places to filter. It's so important to have high quality water to drink and traveling can throw a wrench in that sometimes. But I'd also like to backtrack a little bit. You mentioned your son is six and a half. What has been your approach to education while traveling and how has that evolved?

Danielle: When we first got into like being nomads, I had all these people putting in my ear about, you got to make sure he learns this and he learns that and be doing all these certain things. And so in the beginning, I was really still trying to push like a lot of workbook pages and just like trying to keep on this specific track, I guess, of what people think there's a standard. When I started like realizing that I needed to reassess how I was doing things, I started kind of diving deep into more the unschooling style and understanding that. And so I started reading a few different books, Unschool Yourself First and Wild and Free. It was a really big eye-opener to just really understanding child-led learning. I have been letting my son lead the way into what he wants to learn now. So like right now he's really into the ocean. He loves fishing. We've gotten a few different reef books. And so we're implementing different ways of learning how to do math and how to do science. Even for writing, we created a little fish book. So he'll look in his reef book, he'll pick a fish, we'll learn a little about the fish, he'll write a sentence out and he'll draw a picture of it.

So just finding different ways to implement that. And then even right now, actually, since we've been on the land, he's really gotten into just learning entrepreneurship right now. He started a lemonade stand when we first got here with his buddy. They both went in on it together. They turned each of their $5 into $106, and they got to split it. So they were super stoked. And it kind of set him off. And this last weekend for 4th of July, he made almost like $370 or something like that just off of selling lemonade. But people loved it and he was super stoked. And then my husband, he sat down and they made a balance sheet together. To us, like it's finding those things that spark and light them up that they're excited about because the idea is like, I don't want him to hate learning. I want him to feel like he loves it and not feeling like I'm forcing everything. Now there are days where I'm like, hey dude, you still got to let's do a couple of workbook pages, a couple of this, a little that. Sometimes he's like, eh, I don't want to. I'm like, hey, we could spend eight hours a day going to school or we could just do a couple things and then the rest of the day you tell me what you want to learn. It shows him how to actually enjoy it, not to feel like learning is forced. Because I think that's the problem with school is like, you're forced to go to school, you're forced to sit in this room all day, you have this specific curriculum with half the stuff is not even stuff that is going to be applicable to you in your life. Now I understand we all got to learn math, we got to know how to read and how to write, but there's ways to make it a reality for them without having to force that to them. And so that's what's really come to life for us a lot. And I've really enjoyed in this like adventure with it. Now he's on a boat. And this kid, he will teach you how to do the lures and do all this kind of stuff. Even in the World School Water Hub that we're working on creating this program, one of the days is all about sustainable fishing. Him and my husband are both gonna put together that program. And he's like, I wanna do that. I wanna take people paddle board fishing. I wanna do this stuff with them and show them how to do the knots and all that kind of stuff. And so it gets him excited to, put his skills to use and figure out how he could share that. That's the other thing too. Boys are, oh man, they don't want to sit down. They are not like, I've seen some little girls, they're really good about sitting down and playing and doing their certain things. Not my son, oh no. He is like, I want to go out like first thing in the morning, let's go fishing. And he wants to move his body. So for me, finding the more active ways to keep his mind growing is the best for us. I actually just got into this one called my brain books. And so now he's learning about his brain and how to deal with emotions. And so for me, I feel like if I can help him succeed in understanding how to really handle our emotions, handle other people's, It just feels better and he'll get a lot farther in the world. So he's been enjoying his fishing, he enjoys entrepreneurship, he really loves karate. Like we just kind of follow what he's interested in and we go from there with it.

Suzy: That's great. I love to hear his entrepreneurial spirit. On the pop-up hub where I met Jen, who connected us, there was another family that did a lot of RVing around the US and they were saying their daughters would take orders from other campers and then go make the waffles and then deliver them and they would make bank because people were so excited to have fresh made waffle in the morning when you're out camping. I think it's great to find those opportunities to learn on the go.

Danielle: Now that we're about to be going back on the boat, it's not as easy for him to flex the same type of hustle. So we sat down the other day, because he bought $200 already of fishing gear. We sat down and we're like, okay, you still have like $185. And I was talking to him and I'm like, what if instead of like spending, just spending all of it, we take a hundred and you go give it to dad and dad helps you set up a crypto wallet and you start investing in crypto and you start learning that aspect and that way it can start to build that way. And so he was so excited about it.

Suzy: There's always something to learn about with investing or financial planning, to get a better idea of some of the financial and logistical side of long-term boating. What is a snapshot of one month at some point on your journey? And how could someone, if they wanted to do a similar trip, what type of spending range would they need to think about?

Danielle: So I guess my biggest advice in that is be careful about where you go on that because every area is different. In Panama, we've been staying in San Blas and they bring veggie boats out to you. We were spending about $130 a week on just like the fruits and vegetables, not like all the other stuff. And when we came back to the States, we went for one breakfast in Vegas. It was five of us, four adults and one kid. It was $130.

It's like really thinking about like where you're at in the world and what that's going to look like because everywhere has a different price set. In Honduras, it was even cheaper than it was in Panama. Colombia, it was really cheap out there. So, I mean, it just depends on where you're going. And then to top it off, like you got to think too, like if you're on a boat and you're going around, what are your boat projects? Like, what are the more necessity ones? How expensive might that be? Because, and then how big is your boat? That's one thing like going from the small, we went from this 27 foot boat to a 41 foot boat. When we were out in San Blas, I was like, yeah, we might need new sails. Mine's like five grand for my little monohull. I've seen it happen already with a lot of families is that they get this idea that they're going to go all in on a boat and they're just going to go travel. And then they go, not only just all in, but they choose the bigger boats and they have no clue. They don't understand like the cost. And so that's something to always think about is like what is your budget? Because if you're in a catamaran, it is definitely gonna be a little more expensive. If you're in a monohull, it's definitely gonna be a little bit less, but you're still gonna have these certain boat expenses. In Panama, I'm spending a couple thousand dollars a month on taking care of ourselves. And that's really just spending mostly on food. If we do stuff, we buy, you know, we'll buy experiences here and there. And Sam Blass, like I'm literally cooking for ourselves all the meals. There's like one or two small like little restaurants, but other than that, you're cooking all your own food. Like I said, with the boats, thinking about the Monohull versus the Cadimran and those price costs are very different. Jumping into it, you just want to really get comfortable and be aware of, what are you able to afford with your budget?

And I've even met a lot of sailors who they are out for so many years and they're like, yeah, we're just going off our savings. They're like, we're just doing it. So, I mean, it just depends on what style you want to go. Costs can change if you decide I'm a marina person, if you're out on anchor, you don't pay anything really. Unless you're in some spot, Sandblast, there is like a monthly fee that they come around. It's like $100 for a month, you know? But then in certain parks or if you go to a marina, you're going to pay, anywhere from $200 or so to a couple thousand dollars, depending on what nice marina you're in or whatever kind of amenities you get. Since we've become nomads, I play the game of how cheap can I live so that I can go do other things. I find it fun and intriguing because I mean, why would I want to spend all this money on just like where I live versus like what I get to experience and do? So the mindset shifts.

Suzy: It's about priorities and there people that spend a lot of money on expensive cars and I say my expensive hobby is traveling. Let me know someone wanted to start sailing as a family, what size boat would be maybe comfortable to learn on and what would the upfront cost range look like?

Danielle: It's kind of going to vary to the family because like I have a family of three and so getting on that 27 foot boat was kind of perfect for us to start with, I'd say. I have also heard of those families of like four, five or six, even still doing a 27 foot boat. I would have to go bigger if I had more kids. And if I did, I'd probably start at like the 40 foot, 37, 35 to 40 feet, you know? When we had bought this boat, that 27 foot boat, we bought like, it was a $3,000 boat. And we were like, this is gonna be a cheap boat. Like I did exactly what the guy said. Go buy a cheap boat and start, you know, just start going for it. Well, that cheap boat messed up hard because we knew we had to do a bottom job and we had to go across the bay and it was an hour of like a motor. We didn't make it 20 minutes before the transmission dropped. And that was the first time out ever. So we dropped the anchor, waited till the next morning, so it was evening time when we got out and we got a tow the rest of the way in. And then we got into the boat yard and pending on what also, what boat yard you're in, where you're at, like Florida, it was expensive. That $3,000 boat turned into a $20,000 boat really quick. Was not expecting that. If you're out of the states, it is going to be a little bit cheaper. If you're in the states, it's going to be more costly. Like even when we talked about when we decided to go sell our boat, we're probably going to go sail back up to Florida because we'll get a better price for it up there than we will down here. I really recommend to people like try and start as small as you can that is in your comfort zone because you want to make sure you like it first and then work your way up because you can always shift and change. It's important to see if it's something that you really like. Even if you don't want to go and buy one immediately to really spend the time getting on a charter, like you were saying, that is a great way to do it. You're getting some experience to actually see, I even like sitting on a boat for a week or so? Like, does that feel good to me? And if it does, then continue going and buying a boat.

Suzy: Very true. Do you wish in hindsight you had just bought a $20,000 boat from the get-go?

Danielle: You know, when I first started this whole journey, we were on the mindset, we were going to the Bahamas and getting a catamaran the first year. And four years in and I still haven't made it to the Bahamas. And I still haven't gotten my catamaran. The Bahamas is actually not looking as attractive to me as I used to, mostly because you can't eat the fish out there. You have to be a lot more careful. There's a lot more ciguatera out in the Eastern Caribbean. And so you don't really eat as much of the fish. We love it in San Blas because there's no ciguatera. And I'm like, I can get it. And the water's beautiful and everything's great. So it kind of like opens you up a little bit differently. Honestly, I'm really glad that we started the way we did because even now watching some of my friends who they've been at it for four years and some of them are just tired and they're not wanting to do it the same and they're not feeling excited about it anymore or, you know, they're also way overspent on their budget, it kind of hurts my heart. I do feel like this was definitely the best path for us and we're at that point now we're all three of us are like, we want a catamaran. My son's like, we got to get a catamaran. We need space mom. Like he's like, I want more room to run. I don't blame him because I want the space right now. But I am glad that we've taken the time because we've also had a lot of different shifts in my businesses and figuring all that out. I also know what I'm going to be doing with this, water school world hub. We need a catamaran because we're going to create this and bring more people on so that we can share the experience as well.

Suzy: Do you want to share a little more about what you have planned?

Danielle: The title is going to be Water is Life. But I'm pretty much calling it. It's a water school world hub because all these world school hubs have been coming up and they're all over, but they're all mostly on land. There's some people that I've been seeing, book world school cruises and stuff like that. My goal is that we're going to create a water experience where people can come on. They learn about the marine life. They get to understand a little bit more of how we can be more sustainable to the marine life and how our impact on the earth. We'll show them how to kind of do an intro into sailing and what that looks like and how that feels for them. And then talk about sustainable fishing and give them kind of just the experience of getting to see all these beautiful places. And I'm going to hone it in a lot too with our ionizers so that they can see how the ionizer helps elevate their life and their hydration, but also like the sustainable footprint that we have because the ionizer has over a hundred uses to it. So it can cut out so many different things for the toxins that we're putting on our bodies, the things that we're putting in our earth. You can cut out laundry detergents, you can cut out different like disinfectants, you can cut out all these different things. You can help heal yourself from so many different health problems and really just help elevate yourself and then get rid of the plastic bottles like we were just talking about. You can literally carry this everywhere. Really my goal eventually down the line is I would eventually love to collaborate with some people who are doing marine life projects. We're going to do a retreat, but I'm not going to be doing it on my boat. I'm actually going to utilize some of my friends who have charter boats and I'm going to create a program, somewhere between November and January to build one and do it in Panama to really try and bring more families. The more we learn, the better. The more we can offer to our kids, to the world and just be more sustainable in life. That's exciting.

Suzy: Have you thought what ages you would serve or how many either families or children could be part of each hub?

Danielle: I'm thinking a seven day program because the thing is too is the cost gets a little more expensive. Honestly, not really picky about what the family ages are. Because the reality is I see people with newborn babies on boats and all the way up to teenagers. So whatever families decide that like that's something that calls for that, my son's always been in the water since he was little and I think it's important to share it with everybody. It'll also kind of depend too, like on just how many, how many boats I have running with it at the time. Or unless we start filling people up in the living rooms and stuff, which is possible, especially with the catamaran. It just kind of depends, whatever we can kind of fill up and what the comfort level is so that It's a seven day experience that everybody can enjoy.

Suzy: Absolutely. Where can people learn more about this opportunity as it unfolds?

Danielle: I'm going to be sharing a lot more on between my Instagram and my Facebook right now. I also have a free Facebook group called the Adventure Seekers Collective. And so I'm going to be sharing a lot more into that as I start to build and go.

Suzy: Last, last couple questions because you've talked about Panama, which is on my to visit list. What do you really like about Panama and is it a country that you'd recommend families spend more time or is really the main draw the water?

Danielle: As a family. It depends on what style you like. I do like Panama. Bocas has been nice. There's actually a lot of different little excursions off of Bocas del Toro. So you'd be taking launches out to go do things. San Blas is purely like you are going to go out more on the water. The best way to visit it is probably by a charter boat. There is like an island that's more of the touristy island when you first get in there. And then there's like the Pacific side, which a lot of people, they like to go out there to go surf. And there's a lot of really nice jungles out that side too. There's a lot of different other families around in that, I've constantly seen so many world schoolers kind of bouncing around. You can easily go up to Costa Rica if you decide to go right there too. Like anything tropical always has it, you know, there's ups and there are downs in certain places and everything.

Suzy: That's good to hear. Thank you. Is there anything else you want to share or any resources that have been useful for you in your journey?

Danielle: If you're thinking about getting into sailing, there's a lot of really great sailing communities. Kids for Sail, it sounds silly because my husband and I, like, it's called kids for sale, but it's S-A-I-L, not the S-A-L-E. He's like, that doesn't sound right.

Suzy: We're not selling our children.

Danielle: So there's some really great ways that way if you're thinking about getting into sailing. A girlfriend of mine is also, she's, creating a world school community. And she does amazing stuff. Her name's Rebecca Wagman. She really helps bring to life a lot of just open-mindedness about how to really pick the right hubs.

Suzy: I can't wait to learn more and follow along with your journey as you put this together and I hope you get that catamaran soon.

Danielle: Hopefully it's happening.

Suzy: Thank you so much.