Suzy

Hola! I'm Suzy, a travel-loving money nerd, mom of two energetic boys, and our family lives between Spain and Colorado. Welcome to the Wander World School and Slow Family Travel podcast, where we discuss the stories, logistics, and finances of long-term traveling families and the multitude of ways to learn and educate along the way. Today, we get to know Kathy Hima Byashi. Please tell me more about you and your family.

Kathy

I'm a retired educator who started up a business five years ago. I have a grown son; he's 32 years old. He just a couple of years ago relocated back to Japan. I'm a Canadian by birth. My husband is Japanese. We started off in Japan. I came here by myself, met him several years later, ended up getting married, having a child, stayed here for 19 years. We moved to Beirut, Lebanon, for my son's middle school and high school. Then he went back to Canada for university, and he ended up staying there for 10 years.

I moved into administration, and my husband and I moved to Bangkok for two years, and then to Tbilisi, Georgia, Doha for a year. Then we came back to Japan and stayed three years in Tokyo, two years in Hiroshima, and then we retired to where we are right now in Itoshima.

Suzy

One reason I wanted to reach out and discuss more about living in different places, and your education background, and then also what you do with coaching for families with sons. I have two boys, so I'm always interested in resources to help them grow into awesome adults, which I know is the goal for all of our children. But I think especially as a mom of boys, that's particularly on my mind: how to raise healthy, well-adjusted boys, and I know that's what you do.

I was wondering if you could share more about growing up in Canada and how that travel bug started because you have lived all over the world, many different places. Where did that all originate?

Kathy

When I was young, a long time ago, we were a big family. There were six kids, two parents. My father worked; my mom raised us. Traveling wasn't even like it wasn't on the table; it wasn't what people did. I just know that I was raised to have that inner strength that anything I really set my heart to, set my mind to, I could do anything. So I didn't feel I was limited in any respect at all.

Suzy

That's great. It's good to have that perspective of, "the world is my oyster," you could say. When you were working in those different locations, were you working in education? And then what different positions were you able to hold? Especially for people that are like, "Wait, I want to work around the world and I have an education background. What are those opportunities?"

Kathy

There's lots of opportunities as a teacher. There are all kinds of really good international schools worldwide. And that's how we started when we left Japan. When my son went to university, I knew I was ready. I didn't do well with that empty nest syndrome thing. He was a big part of our life, and so I decided the best way to handle it was to move into a new phase in my career and move to a new country. So I went into administration.

And the first job in Bangkok was a coordinator for a toddler and three-year-old section of a Reggio Emilia school, which was really a wonderful experience. And then I took a job for a year in Tbilisi, and that was in a dual-track bilingual IB school. In Doha, I was hired to start up a Reggio Emilia preschool. And when we came back here in Tokyo, it was to be a director at an international preschool as well. And then in Hiroshima, it was to be the vice principal for lower school.

Suzy

Very diverse opportunities. Could you share a little more about the philosophy behind Reggio?

Kathy

When I was in Beirut, I was able to go to the city of Reggio Emilia in Italy and do like 10-day work study sessions. It was kind of shock and awe that there was a group of people who thought the same way I did about education. The philosophy behind it is basically that children are competent and capable at whatever age and stage they're at. The environment is really important; it's considered as the third teacher, and parents are viewed as partners in the education of their child. So what happens is in a lot of schools, especially with IB schools, a lot of them will have their preschool as a Reggio Emilia philosophy because it really contributes to the idea of the child kind of leading the learning.

Suzy

And that is really common in unschooling, or even if people are taking world schooling for a gap year. And so they're doing maybe some curriculum, but they also really want to let the child develop what their interests are and take the lead in where they want to take their learning.

Kathy

One of the biggest things about Reggio is to really be an observer and really be curious. So like as far as a parent goes—and that we don't do that easily; like we tend to jump in and organize and direct—when we can sit back and really observe, and then find out really what is that interest. So it might not be what it looks like, but when you really pause and really, really watch, you'll find what it is. Then all you need to do is enrich that environment. And the learning, the growth, it's crazy how much and how far they'll go. They will exceed your expectations because it's something that they're really invested in.

Suzy

Exactly! We all know that applies to us too. If there's something that we are more interested in, we are going to spend a lot more time and energy to master that task than if it's something that we feel like we have to do. You shared many different locations that you've lived over the years. I'm curious if there's one that sticks out to you as one that you would move back to.

Kathy

That is a difficult question because even though I'm kind of settled, it's always, "Well, I want to experience something I haven't experienced yet." Like that's kind of my mentality. I would say of all the places that we lived, the place that still has a huge hold on my heart is Beirut. Like I loved the Mediterranean environment. I loved the people, the food. Like that was a—that was a gift those years.

Suzy

I feel like that would be quite different because you moved there from Japan. Was that a bit of a culture shock? I'm just curious how those transitions went between those different locations.

Kathy

The transition to go from the organization and the rules and a little bit of rigidity, also the cleanliness, the orderliness of Japan, and moving into Beirut, which when we first moved there, it was a period of calm when I took that job. We went there in 2004. So it was a few months after we arrived that the political assassinations started. While we were there, there was the Israeli war, there was the Hezbollah uprising. And so there were a lot of things that went on that were just not part of our world whatsoever. When we first arrived, there were no streetlights, so driving was just something that was a real exciting adventure. Like a video game could not capture the excitement that it took to try to cross the street or any of that. So yes, there was a real culture shock moving in there, but it was also exciting.

Suzy

I bet! That's a part of the world I have not spent much time, so it's on the endless to-visit list, you could say. And what did education look like for your son because a lot of those years were spent in Japan, is that correct?

Kathy

He had his early years and his elementary years here. He went to an international school. I taught at that school for a while. And then when we moved to Beirut, he went to a great school there, but it was an international school as well and had his middle and high school years.

Suzy

And with the international school in Japan and in Beirut, was it in English? Were there other languages part of that? Our kids go to a German school when we're in Spain, so I guess it's international, but I don't know if it's the same as when I hear "international school." I think of that as a school where there are kids from all different locations. This school in Sevilla is really primarily Spanish students, and the families send their kids there because they want them to learn German and eventually also English. Whereas international schools, usually kids from all over, they're now in one school with all different languages. Is that correct when I think of international school to think that way? And then what was your experience with those different schools?

Kathy

Well, the international school here in Fukuoka in Japan is quite small. It's the only international school in the area. The curriculum was an American curriculum. The language of instruction is English. There's always the host country's language is the second language that's taught. But it's basically it's a curriculum that's—this one was from the States and delivered in English. And most of the teachers were international teachers. Because of the location here, there were more other Asian students in the school than like people from Europe or North America. So that was a little bit of the difference. When in Beirut, when we first got there, it very definitely was an international school, and they were following the IB and the Reggio Emilia. So the curriculum itself was an English-based curriculum.

Suzy

I'm sure every school is different, even though we say international school. Do you think that children of all backgrounds can do well in an international school? Are they equipped to serve kids from all different backgrounds? And I think of maybe a child with neurodivergency that here in the U.S. they may have an education plan at school, or a parent might think that this school isn't really serving my kid in the way I'd like it to and maybe look for a different option. I'm curious how international schools can cater to such a diverse group of kids. Do you find that small classrooms are part of that, or is it educators that have experience with working kids with kids from all different backgrounds?

Kathy

As far as international schools go, my experience from when I was active in the classroom, we didn't have many children that had any neurodivergent. And the thinking was because we didn't have the training or the specialists to be able to give them the best experience. That was kind of the way international schools were at the time. It's changed somewhat, and there are more children who might be in an international school setting that have a support teacher with them or have additional support. The only time that I've worked in what was truly that was in Bangkok. And the difference was they accepted more children. They also had the most wonderful system of support, and they had their own division who helped to coordinate and train and support, and they had all kinds of specialists. It was really a beautiful system.

There are a lot of boys who get diagnosed with ADHD, and sometimes it's a very good diagnosis, and sometimes it's that we're not looking closely enough at the environment that the children are in. So in general, little boys are active. Like they are really active. The first time I looked back on old home movies of my son when he was around three, like for a split second, I really questioned, "Is that on the right speed?" Because he just seemed to be—and how did we ever keep up with him? Like beyond me. But that's natural for a lot of little boys. And then we put them into a school environment that is saying, "Sit down and be still and learn this way." And that's not the way that they are. They are geared to best learn. So it's the environment.

Suzy

Exactly, which ties in what you were talking about with the philosophies earlier: is how important the environment is, as well as the person and the educator. And from your experience, what would work well for a child that is not thriving in an environment? Obviously, they could switch schools or go to somewhere totally different. But is there some tips to work within whatever environment they have that could help kids where that environment is not serving them?

Kathy

Yes, there is. And a lot of people don't feel they have a choice. You kind of will suck it up for a year and hope for a better situation the following year, which is really a shame. For little boys when they're not thriving at school, I think the first thing before anything else is for a parent to be aware of what those challenges and gifts are of having a little boy. Because if you are not aware, if you don't have the knowledge, then you can't advocate for him. So by advocating, it might be sharing some resources, giving some suggestions. I remember asking, was it like grade one or grade two—so a little more flexibility in kindergarten, but there becomes more restrictions as they get further on—but asking a teacher, "Please provide some accommodation to give him movement breaks?" Like send him down to the other class at the end of the school with a note that just says, "Sign this and send it back to me," so that he can walk from here to there. Or give him a skipping rope and let him stand outside the window and jump. Like just that work.

Sometimes some people will accommodate. Some people will get really excited and listen to the information you're trying to share about the different way that they learn and different ways to help them thrive in the system that's not really built for them to thrive in. And then when all of that doesn't work, then it's really you as a parent. Different years will be easier or more difficult. I would say the first thing is as much physical activity as you can fit in there. So leave home 15, 20 minutes earlier and stop at the park and let them run before they get to school. As soon as they're done school, stop at that park and let them run it off. Expect that they are going to have meltdowns when they get home because they've been trying to hold it together for the whole time they've been in school. Expect that there's going to be some dips in their self-esteem. And because they're not able to do the same that those little girls who are loving and thriving in that environment are doing. So make sure that you plan ways to keep their self-esteem intact. And whether it's spending more time hiking as a family or building something as a family. The other thing: I have seen a negative impact like almost 100% of the time on little boys who spend time on screens. And it's like we are setting them up at home to fail even further in school when that's part of their everyday life. And so those are the areas that we can control.

Suzy

Absolutely. And this is where I can be a little jealous that you raised a boy maybe before screens were as ubiquitous as they are now. So we took this whole month off and they knew it. And honestly, my oldest is picking up books left and right. My youngest is building. And my husband saw it too. He grew up playing video games because that was very social when he was younger and like the nineties, because literally his friends would crawl through the window and be in his room. And it was very basic, and now they're just so much different. So he's finally agreed, and then we said, "Okay, this is great. We're cutting it off completely now." And we told them actually today, and my oldest did not take it well. But then he came around, and I think he just is like, "I'm a little sad I can't play with a few of his friends at play." And I said, "For one of his friends, we picked up today, and we carved pumpkins, and we did all these great things all afternoon." And I was like, "That's what I'd love for you to do with your friends. Like we will absolutely support these friendships. We're going to support the time together, but it's just stuff that looks like there's no screens anymore." So I am really excited for this. And I appreciate you sharing that because I know screens can get really personal, and I understand that there is a, maybe a time and a place and every family will approach it differently. But I think as a mom of boys, I've definitely seen how their brain is just wired.

And I grew up as the oldest daughter who was like that perfect student. I loved school. I excelled in it. I sat through everything. So it has been a little bit more of a challenge to raise boys that I'm like, "How are they going to fit in this world? And how can I make them thrive and challenge them a little bit while also making sure that I'm not stressing them in certain ways?" So that I wanted to ask: you've worked in education all around the globe. You coach parents of boys in a variety of ways. So what should parents of boys know to raise kind, loving adults?

Kathy

Would you ask that same question if you had a daughter?

Suzy

I feel like if I had a daughter, I would think that I would know what to do because I was a daughter once and I know how I think. And so I've thought about this a lot because I don't really like the word "boy mom" and things like that because really I'm just a mom, and I happen to have two boys. I have nothing to compare it to besides these two boys, which are obviously very different than lots of other boys too. I do think I would feel like I would know what I'm doing, but I can't even like put myself in my husband's shoes, because all I ever know is my perspective. It's hard to feel like you're putting yourself in another person's shoes.

Kathy

I think a lot of the chaos that comes up is when we parent based on our own experience, which you do, and especially if you're not aware that there might be anything different. So if I am parenting my little boy the same way that I'm parenting my little girl, and I'm parenting it because I know how I was raised and the greatest mistake that I made was thinking everyone thinks like me. Especially my husband! Would think, "If I had this issue and I was talking to my sister, we would immediately talk about this problem. We would sit face-to-face. We would, you know, sort it out and get it figured out." And I would put that same expectation on my husband. And that's not the way he works. But until I became aware of what some of those gender differences were and then was respectful about those differences, then that's when everything changed. And it's not just with our sons; it's with all the males that we're connected with, really. So something as simple as females are so comfortable talking face-to-face.

Suzy

Yeah.

Kathy

In the classroom, I can sit down beside a little girl, like across from a little girl, and we can just have a great conversation about whatever. A little boy or a male—you'll see guys, and they're shoulder-to-shoulder. They will be doing something together, they'll be doing something physical, playing, playing something. So some of the best conversations you might have is in the car.

Suzy

When you're not looking at each other. Yes.

Kathy

Yes, because it's not their comfort zone where mine is. I want to see your eyes. And we'll sometimes say that to our little boys: "Look at me. Look at me. I'm talking to you. I want you to listen to me. Are you listening to me?" So that's one of the things is just the shoulder-to-shoulder stuff. Another thing is with our little boys is often as women, we talk too much. We simply use too many words, and it doesn't work well with them.

Often women are—and these are big generalizations—but often women are very, very, very proficient at multitasking. Like I can have 50 things on the go and be doing fairly well with all of them. Whereas often a male, they excel at single focus to the point of being able to exclude everything else. So for example, your little boy comes home from school. He goes upstairs to his room. He's playing. He's so excited to get back because he's building this city with LEGO. You're downstairs. You're preparing for dinner, getting everything all done. Five minutes before, you call up and you say, "Dinner's going to be ready in five." And then you turn around and you go back to what you are doing. Five minutes later, you're starting to put everything on the table. You call up again, "Come on down for dinner." You go back to the kitchen or wherever and you continue to do your stuff. And then you realize 10 minutes have gone by. You've got everything on the table. Everyone else is there, and he's still not there. So you yell, yell up one more time. And still he hasn't come down like immediately. So you stomp up the stairs, stand in the doorway, hands on the hips, and you've had four builds up to this frustration. The little boy hasn't heard you. He has been so focused on what he's doing, what he's building. He hasn't heard you. And so it's like a deer in the headlights kind of thing. He doesn't know why his mom is standing there yelling at him and so angry. So in those situations, if we can just approach it, that before we respond to anything like that, we simply say, "Did you hear me?" And nine times out of ten, that little guy would say, "No, Mommy, what did you want?" At all.

Suzy

This focus was on this task and not a task that we would like them to have focused on, like coming down for dinner.

Kathy

Yeah. Yeah.

Suzy

I've seen a lot of that in action. I try to put words to feelings. I could also say something like, "I'm really angry right now," just trying to give them those words because I do see that difference.

Kathy

That's part of the societal expectations, but I think if as parents we can be a little more mindful of creating that emotional vocabulary. And today it's even easier than it was in my childbearing times. I know when I go into school sometimes to substitute, because they do put a focus on that in the younger years. And I'll see these charts that have like 30 ways to say "I'm happy." And it's like, there's some of the words that don't come up in normal conversation, but the concept of a child being able to look at this chart and say, "That's it, that's exactly how I'm feeling," and then that's the word to go with it. I think it's something we need to put more of an emphasis on to support them.

Suzy

You've worked in education and raised a son. I know this is very generalized, is there a certain educational environment that you do think in general, many boys especially could thrive in? Is that smaller groups? Is that giving them unlimited time to follow their passions? Giving them certain opportunities to move? If someone was like, "I want to think about how to create the perfect learning environment," what are some of those things that they could consider for boys, especially knowing that, again, not every boy is going to need or want the exact same things?

Kathy

It really comes down first to understanding, like understanding what the gifts and the challenges are about being a little boy. I remember being so frustrated with school when my son was eight, and that I started looking at alternative ways. And I actually went as far as planning a trip, taking my son, going to Australia, having an interview both for him as to enter in middle school and for me to be able to work in this school. Because when I did my research, this school—it was a boys' school—but they understood. I looked at their parent reading suggested reading list. It was like, "I've read that one. I've read that one." It was like, it was my happy place. Whether it's a school, an institution, or it's you creating that environment for your child, educate yourself, find out what those differences are, and then tune in on your child and make the assumption that he is competent and capable and he will lead you if you are able to follow him. I remember one of the alternative schools that I really—I didn't have the courage, if I'm really honest, at that time. But the school was such that when a child went, they chose. So if one kid is going down to the pond and fishing for two months, the assumption is he's processing something. He's working something out. There's nothing wrong with that. It's the right thing. And then inevitably, that child would come back to the flock, or however you want to say it, and want something. Like he would want to be reading more books about fishing. He'd want to be understanding the mathematical component. The entryway to his curriculum. To me, that sounded beautiful.

Suzy

Yes, that does. We have discussed some of the maybe difficulties of raising boys and parenting boys. I would also like to talk about the joys, either from your experience or from the work you do with coaching parents of boys. What are some of the joys that you've seen with raising boys and what can we lean into with them to ensure that they have a joyous childhood on their path to adulthood as well?

Kathy

I love the energy. And so that's something that I—I let the boys that I work with know that I appreciate that, rather than trying to make them slow down and settle down. I love the purity. Like there is something so pure about a little boy. I know again, generalizations, but little girls, even from a young age, they can just be more manipulative. Like they know how to play mind games that you think shouldn't be able to happen with that young of a child. But I have never seen that same thing with a little boy. So there's a purity there that I think should be cherished.

It all comes down to awareness and knowledge. And as soon as you have that, then you start seeing your little boy, not as some deficit: "He can't manage at school. He can't articulate like that girl." There is nothing that makes me more excited than a little boy. Going to be having a grandson in maybe six months, five months.

Suzy

Congratulations.

Kathy

I can't wait to get my hands on that little boy, you know, because right from the beginning, I want him to know that he is—like, he will in the family—but too many times we talk about our little boys, even like as soon as they start walking and they start getting into things, we start talking about it in a negative connotation. It's like, "My God, he's exhausting. He just never stops. He's like the, you know, ever-ever ready battery bunny," and we talk about it negatively. So the more aware we are though, and so that we can create a more balanced environment where they know we see them, we understand them, so that at least in their home environment, they know who they are and they can be themselves. And then they'll grow up okay, even when everything else is maybe not the best for them.

Suzy

Absolutely. I like to say, "I love your enthusiasm. And also, I do need you to clean up." So a way to compliment sandwich maybe. "I love this about it, but you still need to do this task I've asked you to do." Right now I'm at the phase of, "Let's do this together," because I realized these are skills that they have to learn. And it just doesn't maybe come as easily. I like that you mentioned observing your kids, your boys, what are their needs, and really being open to listen to what they have to say when you're shoulder-to-shoulder. And so maybe they are willing to share a little bit more about that. Is there anything else that you would like to share in particular from your experience?

Kathy

I would say put a focus on communication right from the very beginning because the better your communication is, the deeper and richer your relationship will be with your son. And that's something that will last forever.

Suzy

I found that we can communicate a little more late at night. Like suddenly the conversations happen, and I'm like, "It's okay. I figured about a little late because we're talking. It's okay." Yeah, trying to lean into those moments and not stifle them because of course they don't always pop up when you want them to.

Kathy

That's another thing about awareness though, because for women, if something's happened, you want to talk about it right away. For boys, there's something that's referred to as time silence. And that's after something happens, it's not prime time to talk about it. There's some logic behind it. But that will come out in those times, late at night afterwards. As long as we don't push them to communicate with us before they're ready to communicate with us.

Suzy

Giving them time and space, and then opening that door up when they are ready to communicate with us. I appreciate that for me. But also, I know there's a lot of other parents who are maybe they're choosing to world school or travel more just because they see that energy level that they have in their boys and that they want to let them kind of see and experience the world. And so I think those are really good tips.

I meant to ask earlier about the language piece because your son, does he speak multiple languages and which of those languages? I'm very curious because I feel like it's so important to give kids another language if possible, and I'm curious how that's worked out now that you have a young adult that you've raised?

Kathy

In the house, my husband speaks only Japanese. He has some English vocabulary, which has gotten better as we've been more international. His—the language that we speak at home is Japanese from his side. With my son, I've only ever spoken English. And because I knew he was going to go to the international school, I knew because the language of instruction was going to be English, I had no worries. But I would say his first language was Japanese. And even from the youngest of age, he would naturally, like when he started having more vocabulary, his dad would say something to him, he would respond in Japanese. I would say something to him in English, he would respond to me in Japanese, but appropriately. So he definitely comprehended. His whole environment is Japanese. His grandparents don't speak English. So I didn't worry about it.

In the international school, we thought about for just a second—I'm very opinionated about education—and I saw too many kids suffer from being in an international school and trying to keep grade level with another language. So he had Japanese classes at the international school. But because we were living here, he had the baseball club. He was going to Aikichujitsu. So his normal environment, that's where he kept his Japanese. When we went to Beirut, he also had Arabic classes, but it was because of his friendships that his Arabic is quite good. Then when he went to university, he was living in Montreal, Canada, which is a bilingual city, and he needed to work to support himself in school, in a restaurant, he had to have French. And then now his wife is from France, and he lived there for a little while. So he had to communicate in different languages. I think that is what languages are about. They're for socialization, they're for communication. And the best way to do it is in whatever natural environment you can create.

Suzy

It does motivate them to learn when they want to talk to their peers. It makes a difference.

Kathy

But the other thing with that is I believe that, like this, it's the competent and capable thing. We never pushed reading and writing in Japanese. He's always been good verbally, but we never pushed that because I always believed if he needs it at some point, he's a smart boy and he'll figure it out. And he has. He has come back here. He's taken a job where he's actually like a liaison between the English section of the company and the Japanese section. He has had to increase his reading, writing, speaking capacity greatly. And he has. I don't think we really believe or understand how capable our children are when they are motivated for something.

Suzy

And that they'll rise up to the moment when it presents itself to them and they're motivated to accomplish that goal. Exactly. Just because they're not showing that motivation and that inclination to do it because we're asking them to, doesn't mean they're not capable. Right. It's just a difference of motivation. Yeah. And then you speak Japanese as well?

Kathy

But it was kind of the same thing. Education, my career has been in international schools. The language of instruction and communication is English. It was when we started up a school, like in the community, and it was Japanese parents who were coming in. That's when my Japanese got better.

Suzy

When you had to speak it. Absolutely.

Kathy

When I wanted, I wanted. I didn't want to go through my husband. I wanted to be saying it myself.

Suzy

And are there any challenges, but also joys about having lived in so many different places over the years?

Kathy

The best part, I would say, from a family perspective, moving from Japan when our son finished elementary, was that when we moved into a new country culture, we were just one unit. And we had such a beautiful opportunity to recreate ourselves as a family. And I will cherish that time.

Suzy

It does provide lots of bonding opportunities to be in new environments together, figuring it out as a family unit. Before we wrap up though, I would like to learn a little bit more about you in a lightning round. Your favorite place, city or country?

Kathy

The Gili Islands in Indonesia.

Suzy

I've heard really good things about that. A most unusual food that you've ever tried?

Kathy

Snake blood.

Suzy

What does it taste like?

Kathy

Warm blood. It's gross, just gross. It's for celebratory reasons at New Year's.

Suzy

And bus, train, car, or bike, or foot, however you prefer to get around.

Kathy

Foot.

Suzy

Yeah. And then what's the first thing you do when you arrive in a new country?

Kathy

Plan a trip to the Botanical Gardens.

Suzy

You like plants and nature?

Kathy

They're always beautiful, you know, stunningly beautiful. So it's a nice way to get a compact view.

Suzy

Very true. If you could teleport to one place right now, where would it be?

Kathy

It would either be one of the Gili Islands or Scotland, one or the other.

Suzy

I'd like to give you a moment to share a little more about what you do in your coaching practice. And if someone was looking for support as a parent of boys, what type of support you could offer them.

Kathy

When I'm working with parents, it's usually on a one-on-one. I have courses, I have a membership. There's lots of ways to work with me. There's a free challenge that has direct contact with me three times during that period. When I work with parents, it starts off with a minimum of three sessions because I think it takes that long to try to establish the relationship and how best to move forward. It's usually done if they're not living in the area, then it's usually done like in Zoom to get that. And it's just very intimate. Everybody is different, and everyone often just needs that hand, someone who could just say, "Look at it this way," or "Give this one a try." I think we need to be doing more to support each other. Most of us, especially within the communities you're talking about and communities I've experienced, we don't have our village anymore. So that's what I kind of think of me: is kind of being somebody's village when they really need a little bit of extra support.

Suzy

And sometimes it's hard to be vulnerable with people that know us really well or our family or our friends. And so it's great to seek out professional support from someone that we can really open up to about, you know, parenting can be hard and it can be rough and getting support helps us get through those times. So I will make sure to link up all the information about how people can reach out to you. I've really enjoyed learning more and talking more about our shared passion for raising awesome boys into awesome adults. Anything else you'd like to add?

Kathy

Just that's the name of the book, Raising Boys Who Become Remarkable Men.

Suzy

I think that's a great place that people can start. Thank you so much for sharing all this knowledge with me. Thank you.

Kathy

It's been a pleasure talking with you.