Suzy: We have a great episode today with Chris and Robin from Denver, Colorado. Their family of five transitioned from a three-year full-time RV lifestyle to navigating online public school to accommodate neurodivergent learning needs and flexible schedules. We dive into the logistics of standby travel, flying business class with three kids for just $35 each, and job opportunities in the airline industry. Discover how they make life work for them to afford family adventures and why they pack a suitcase full of food for international trips to the Great Barrier Reef. Listen to the end to find out how the tricks they learned to make their last trip was their smoothest adventure yet. Welcome to the Wanderer World School podcast.

Suzy: I'm Suzy, a travel-loving money nerd, mom of two, and our family lives between Spain and Colorado. On this show, we discuss stories, logistics, and finances of traveling families and the many ways to learn along the way. Today, we get to know Chris and Robin, who we got to meet in Denver as part of the Denver World Schoolers. So we'll jump into that in a little bit too, but welcome to the show. Please tell me more about you and your family.

Chris & Robin: Yeah, so we're Chris and Robin. We are a family of five with three children, 15, 13, and 11. We've been traveling full-time and part-time for around eight years. We do it off and on as we can with our schedule, with our current work-life business commitments.

Suzy: Yeah, it's sometimes a balance to fit it all in. But if you have the intention, it definitely makes it a little easier to fit it all in. And we met back at the first World Schoolers Picnic, which I'll be honest, I put it out into the interwebs and into the world and I picked a date and then I was like, I don't know if anyone was going to come. I knew like one family had said, and then I showed up and you guys were there and there were so many cool people there. I just want to say I appreciate that we got to share that day together and then we got to go to the German Christmas market. So this is really fun. We'll have to get together again when we're back in Denver. But I love hearing more about you and your travel stories. I'm really happy you guys are here to share more about it on the podcast today. Let's talk about where did your love for travel begin?

Chris & Robin: Well, I love to fly and Chris loves to go places. Chris works for an airline and so we can kind of hop around wherever for free or pretty cheap or pretty affordable. And so we like to travel wherever Chris gets a crazy idea for us. And since Chris loves to go explore places and I like to come along for the adventure, I'm always in. My dad was an over-the-road truck driver when I was a kid. So during the summers, we would get to go with him. And so we'd end up in different parts of the country. One time we got stuck out on the road and we were in DC and like got to go downtown and do all the cool museums. And like for somebody who didn't get to do a lot of vacations and stuff as a child, like that was a great eye-opening of like, the world is a lot different and they have palm trees in Florida and it snows in Maine and that's where I kind of like learned the idea of like, oh, there's other places out there that would be fun to see and do.

Suzy: And then you got into the travel world, right? Because you said you work for an airline. And so does that mean you get to take a lot of standby flights? And how does that work if someone works for an airline? And how can someone get a job that allows for free flights? Is that even a thing?

Chris & Robin: That's right. We do travel. That is a thing. There are lots of people who work part-time at an airline just so they can have the travel benefits. Yeah. And so it does work. There is standby space available, as it's called. For the company that I work for, we can fly for free if there's a seat available. If there is a different place that we want to go that my airline doesn't fly to, I can buy a seat available on other airlines for like 30 to $40, depending on the agreement that my airline has with their airline. So we just got back from Australia in the fall and we flew all over the place and then it was $35 a person for us to go. And so we just kind of build our schedule around where we think we can get flights. And you have to be really flexible with that.

Suzy: That is amazing.

Chris & Robin: We went to Europe last year, it was like we went a day earlier than what we originally planned because that's when the seats were available. Yeah, there are tons of jobs in the industry—flight attendants, pilots, gate agents, rampers, even business people. We have some good friends, he works in IT and so he works remote and they have these benefits because he works for the airline. But he's not an airline person. He is a computer programmer. And so you can find jobs in any type of subject field. The airline has that job. And I think it's really fun. People talk about flying standby. They're like, "Oh my gosh, you can't guarantee you're going to get there." I'm like, "Well, yeah, but that's part of the adventure for us." And so we have three kids—11, 13, 15—and they know we're not guaranteed to get on the airplane.

Suzy: That is worth looking into.

Chris & Robin: And then also like my sister, she has a wedding abroad in January of next year and she's like, "Hey, you want to come along?" I'm like, "I haven't been to that country yet. That sounds like fun." It makes it really fun to be able to travel in a different, unusual way. But it's also definitely sometimes you get marooned in the airport or maybe you just decide to forget it and grab a hotel for the night. So yeah, you've got to be flexible for sure.

Suzy: I could see that. And you try to look at off-season? Is that something where you're more likely to have seats if you're not trying to fly in July to Europe, but maybe February? Okay, got it.

Chris & Robin: That's right. Correct. Yeah, we do. We do a lot of shoulder season. We just did Australia and New Zealand. And so we went in November because that's right before their summer season. And so we got there a little bit earlier. So it wasn't that busy. And once again, because it's space available, we got business class. And so like on a flight that's 16 hours, business class was like the way to go. So it's really hard to explain to people that my kids are like familiar with business class on a regular basis. They're like, I was like, "Listen, we sometimes sit in an airport all day, but I will for business class." We've cut trips short just because we all want business class coming home. And it's the freedom and flexibility that you have to work with. And you find out what's important to you. If you want to go somewhere, you just find a way.

Suzy: Yes, for a 16-hour flight, that's amazing.

Chris & Robin: My son and I went to Ireland in August. The university I went to, I went to Kansas State and they started their football season in Ireland this year in Dublin. And so like the day before we were like, "Hey, we should go." Literally within 24 hours we were on an airplane. Well, because everybody else was going to Ireland, we couldn't get there normally. So we ended up going to Germany first and then Ireland and then coming home we had to go to Paris and then Rome and then home. Sometimes you just have to be creative on how you get there. What I get a lot is like, "How do you do that with your school?" But basically, we do an online public school for our kids.

Suzy: Yes.

Chris & Robin: We did homeschool previously, but we have some kids who have some different difficulties and they need some specialists. And so we've gotten into the online public school system so we can get services through that. And then we are just working with the school and with the teachers. And then we can kind of like work a little ahead or get a little behind and then catch up. And so it works out really well because we love traveling. And when we were full-time homeschooling before the kids needed some specialists to work with, it worked out really well. And we were just like, "Whatever, we'll push off the science project a week. No big deal. We are learning the history of the Mayan people or the local New Zealand stuff and whatever." Like there's always learning happening. It's just whether it's in the specific system or not.

Suzy: Exactly. So you've been able to blend your need for a flexible schedule and traveling at the off-season with, you know, finding a schooling system that works well for you and your kids, right? And that's something I don't know if people like have thought a lot about is how many online public schools there are because there is an opportunity, like you said, to access some of those services that are available through a public school. So you get some other outside support, which I think can be really helpful as kids get older. But yet there's still that option to take that schooling with you if you have this option to go to Ireland like you did or New Zealand or Australia and take those amazing business class flights. That's so cool.

Chris & Robin: We were in Belgium last year and so they do live classes a couple hours a day and so my youngest gets on and everyone's like, "Good morning, good morning." And he's like, "Good evening." Everybody got a kick out of that he was in a different time zone. And we've also learned like how going to Europe can be really great with their current school system because it's evening versus morning and our kids love the evening time. They like to stay up late, less loving getting up early.

Suzy: Yeah, that's so cool. For sure, those classes fit better in with your family schedule anyhow. Tell me what a day looks like for an online school program. And again, I'm sure they're different everywhere, maybe even based on your kiddos and their grades and their needs, it's different.

Chris & Robin: So for ours it is different per grade. The younger they are, the more live classes they have. So my youngest is in the fifth grade right now, and he'll probably have three hours or three to four hours of live classes a day. It depends on the day. And they're kind of spread out. And he does some extra stuff for his needs that he gets. So he's getting a little extra time. And then my high school kid maybe does one or two hours of live classes a day. And then the rest is online in the sense like they watch videos and interactive videos and stuff like that. And then if we miss a live class, it's totally fine. Everything is recorded and then we come back and watch it on our own time. So like if we are traveling or on an airplane or something like that, we just say, "Hey, we're not going to be here," and no big deal. And the school we go to has really been great, flexible with us. And we're like, "Hey, we're traveling." And all the teachers are like, "Yeah, that's important. Just turn in when you can." And so they give us the ability to work kind of on our own pace, as long as we meet like the end of quarter, end of semester deadlines. And so that's worked really well for us. But like each grade and each kid is a little different in that regard. And I think the benefit for us is we've got a kiddo who we've already mentioned. They're not always morning people. And so one of their live classes is at 9 a.m. every day, and I just said to the teachers and the mom like, "Look, we're never going to be there." So we have agreed that we just sleep in. She watches the live recordings and then she watches them either slower or faster as needed based on the material about what she needs help with. So that works really well for us, especially when there's like a scheduled difficulty when, you know, morning time is just hard. And so we're flexible. And that's one of the reasons that I really like the online program—that it is recorded because she needs that flexibility with school. And then also we can help her ebb and flow on her days that are easier and harder. And sometimes she's working ahead. So it's been a good flow for both the kids and the teachers to get the help that they need and then also work around their schedule.

Suzy: I love that. And then with having fewer hours occupied by that, it gives them some more flexibility for downtime in between classes if they need it or ways to just go regulate or get some fresh air and things like that. Because that's the hardest part about a school environment is just the structure. And again, I think some kids thrive in that and some that's very difficult to be on someone else's schedule completely, so I know it could be a challenge.

Chris & Robin: Yeah. Yeah. I love that what you said, like having that time to take a break and whatever, like we have a trampoline in our little back patio area and that is often where they're like, "Hey, I've got to go jump." And so they'll go like regulate their bodies or the kids have some therapy swings in the room and they'll sit there and swing and I'll hear the little clicking of the swing. And it just makes me smile because they're like, "My body needs to move or my body needs to be cozy." And so they'll go and take care of that, which is awesome.

Suzy: That's a great program. And this goes all the way until like graduation, right? That's the plan to continue? Yeah. That's so cool.

Chris & Robin: Yep, yep. Having done the homeschool first, it is a hybrid. It is really the best of both worlds. So I'm no longer in charge of their education, which is a huge relief off of everybody. Because there's always this fear that you're screwing your kids up when you homeschool. And we could have probably done it all the way through. But it just was a lot of stress that was not needed with everything else that we had going on. I think on that note, the stress is also when there are difficulties in certain areas, like one kid is like very dyslexic and that's a specialty. And so now we need help and support in that area. I can teach an average kid to read, but once you start adding in difficulties, that gets very complex very quickly. And then another kid has some other learning difficulties. And so now we have two kids who have different difficulties. And then the older one who can mostly work independently, but it provided the flexibility both for the support and the independence. And then also gave me bandwidth back so that I could be the best version of myself and support the kids instead of being like, "Okay, have you done your math today? Have you done this? Have you done that?" And then they can generally work with their teachers and then I can support the effort instead of having to like lead the army into battle, if you will.

Suzy: Yeah, no, I love that. I've always considered myself like a support person in education. Like it's so much nicer to fill in if there are things that you can do one-on-one with your kiddo. If this seems to be an issue today or you're working with a teacher, like "How can I support my kiddo through this?" And then you can jump in and really like deep dive in that instead of doing that on top of all the curriculum management. And I think younger kids' curriculum can be a little more flexible.

Chris & Robin: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Exactly. A little more flexible.

Suzy: Exactly. But I can see how at the ages of your kids, it was like maybe there's some more structure or things that they really want to pursue further that would just be harder to maybe take as much of that initiative. I love this. Almost every state probably has some type of like an online school, right, like post-COVID? Okay. Online public school.

Chris & Robin: Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah. Most of my friends who are across the US have something. Yes, something. And this program has been in 20-plus years, because we were a little nervous. We're like, "Is this a new thing?" And it's like, "No, this has been 20-plus years." And the one thing I will say is I really love homeschooling. I love unusual learning. We love hands-on. We love visiting historical sites. It's a fabulous way to learn. But we also really love supporting the kids with their online school and you know every curriculum is a little different so they might be a little behind or ahead in some and the beauty is that, like I said, we can support. So did I love picking the curriculum? Yeah, I really did, but I don't love that when they hit those difficulties I wasn't able to be an expert in every single area and I think that's where it's really awesome to have that support.

Suzy: Is there also a social component? Like you said, with the live classes, are there peers that they kind of get to know? I know they have other ways to spend time in person with kids and then traveling, obviously, like we know how much they learn. But is there like some sense of classroom community there as well?

Chris & Robin: There is, there is. Each class is a little different, but like my youngest has like maybe like 20 people in his class. And then every week they start out like, "Well, what did you do this weekend?" and everybody gets to like tell about themselves and all of our kids have made friends with people in their classes and now they do games online. They'll call and FaceTime each other. And then the school is also really good. They do field trips once a month. So like we live in the Denver area. So they'll pick someplace on the front range. We've been south of Pueblo all the way up to Fort Collins. And they'll do a get-together once a month. And then people who make it can make it. It's not a requirement, but then it gives you the opportunity to meet people in person. And so they have all different opportunities like that as well.

Suzy: I really appreciate you sharing because I think this is a wonderful way for families that are like, "I want to travel and not be constrained by only the busy summer breaks." But yet having some online component there, right? And so don't forget that there might be an online option even in your district or in your state.

Chris & Robin: Yeah. And I think for anybody who's nervous about switching and making that change is you can always research and ask the questions early, even when your kids are in school. I know for us, we chased Chris's career and I chose to stay home or work part-time or kind of ebb and flow between whatever our life brought. And a lot of people are in a two-working household. And a lot of times, if you recognize that you want your income to go towards travel, you can make some shifts pretty easily in your rhythm to be able to make it happen. So just encouraging people to do whatever is your best life, right? Like you've got one.

Suzy: Exactly. Well, you've also been writing your book. Well, I gifted it for Christmas to my new nephew. Tell me, what's the name of the book?

Chris & Robin: Yes. Okay, so thank you for asking about it. So this is called Yucky Weather and it's written under my pen name, which is B. G. Barnstormer. B is for Birdie. My older brother called me Birdie growing up, so that's where the B comes from. G is actually, you'll appreciate this, Suzy, it's galleta, which is "cookie" in Spanish. My kids call me Cookie, so Birdie Cookie, if you will. And then, Barnstormer—we're travelers. We're pilots by trade. We're travelers. A barnstormer would perform aerial stunts and travel and sleep in a barn. And so I felt like when I started writing, I'm a pilot, I'm a mom, I'm an advocate, I'm a traveler. I do so many things that it's really hard to quantify Robin in one sentence. And so when I came up with my pen name, B.G. Barnstormer, I'm like, "Yeah, this feels like home." It's called Yucky Weather and this book is about life perspective. As a traveler, I want to read you just one first page because it's my quote. So it says in here, it says, "There is sunshine above the clouds. It's all a matter of perspective." And if you've ever been in an airplane and you're getting up in the clouds and you're like, "Wow, it's a literally yucky weather day down on the earth." And then you get up above the clouds and it's a whole different experience.

Suzy: Absolutely, please do, please do. It's a great story.

Chris & Robin: Yucky Weather for me was just saying "Enjoy whatever you've got." If it's a yucky day, this talks about splashing in puddles, enjoying the rain, looking at the clouds. And it's a really cute rhyming book. It's a great bedtime story. It's for ages kids three to eight and really on up because I wrote it for my children. I wrote it for people who really want a great bedtime story with their kids. And of course, it's getting into springtime here pretty soon. So like, you know, if I do say so myself, you can find it online—IngramSpark, Amazon, or my website, bgbarnstormer.com.

Suzy: Yes, I'll make sure to link all that in the show notes. And I was able to pick it up at the local bookstore, which always makes me happy to support one of those as well. So if you're in the Denver area... Well, I appreciate you sharing more about how usually one name does not always encapsulate all of our interests. Let's bring it back to travel a little bit because I know we talked a little bit about, let's see, Ireland, Australia has been recent travels. But tell me a little more about some of the family travels you've been on, how that started, right, when the kids were probably a lot younger, and how that's evolved as they've become, you know, teenage ages. Okay.

Chris & Robin: So can I tell this story? Sure. This is my favorite. So once upon a time we had just gotten married and Chris said to me, "Hey, let's go to the RV show." And I'm like, "Why would anybody ever own one of these things?" Okay. Mark my words. Then fast forward to roughly 2019 and he was at an airline and we didn't know where we were going to live next because we were like, "Well, you know we could live in this space or in this space or in this space or in that space." We don't know where we're going to live. And he's like, "What do you think about buying an RV?" I'm like, "I mean, I don't know." I was like, "Let's go look at one." So we go to the local RV place or camping place and we look at RVs. I'm like, "It was basically like an apartment on wheels. It's got a kitchen, it's got some beds. I mean, why not? I used to like to camp growing up. I was a Girl Scout, you know?" And so we bought our RV in September of 2019 and started renovating it and getting it ready to launch full-time. Now, had we been RVing? Absolutely not. And did we care? Absolutely not. We're going to just RV. It's fine. So we planned for six to 12 months. Six months in, I looked at him and I said, "Hey, babe, what do you think about maybe doing this a little longer?" You know, because we don't know where we're going to be in a year. And at that time, the pandemic was in full swing. So we're like, "Yeah, you know, we don't have any plans. So let's just hang out in the campground." And yeah, three years later, we were on the road full-time for three years, homeschooling, traveling, educating. So what did I forget? Yeah. So basically, we took a year's worth of rent because at the time we were renting. So we took a year's worth of rent and did this, that if we hate it, it's going to be the same amount of money. And if we love it, then it's great. Then we got into it—we have a trailer at the end of it. And so, yeah, we started out just kind of dipping our toe in it and we just dove head into it. So in the RV travels, we did that full-time for three years. And then we did all 50 states in that time. Our children have been all the way around. We traveled with the weather. So we'd go north in the summer and south in the winter and enjoy all that stuff. I actually switched jobs in the middle of it. Like wherever I was based would change. And so they would just, I would just move my bases to where we wanted to be around in the country. I would commute to work from wherever. And it just really opened our eyes and opened our children's eyes up. They were 10, eight and six when we started. And it was like the perfect age because they're old enough to appreciate things and old enough to do things, but yeah, they're still excited about life and still liked doing things with us. So like it was really the perfect age to do it in that regard. And we met a whole bunch of other people who did the same thing and we're like, "Oh there's a whole community here!" Like we didn't know that there was a community that was... that was a shock to us. And when we found that community we're like, "This is home." Even though home is wherever we park it. It was home. I've got to tell you the story about our youngest who was six years old at the time and so we're like, "Buddy, like we're going to be moving our house every week and our RV is going to be home and it's just this little travel trailer," like a 35-foot travel trailer, had a bunkhouse, it was really a great starter rig. And I said, "We're going to go visit so-and-so and they're in Colorado. There's going to be mountains there." He's like, "Whoa, whoa. Hold on... like there's going to be rocks and we get to climb on them? I am in!" So it was just this really funny moment at our dinner table where we're like, "Okay, cool. Like all they want to do is explore. All they want to do is climb. All they want to do is be curious." And it really like opened up my eyes as a homeschool mom. Because at that point we had homeschooled for two years and then we spent three years on the road. So a total of five years at that time. And really that hands-on learning was so fun. Like they wanted to learn about where are snails from and why are slugs this way? What about crabs? And we just started doing that child-led learning and different experiences. And I think as a homeschooler, a nomad, a world schooler, that is just being life and being curious. And I think that's the piece that was so fun to watch and experience with the kids alone.

Suzy: Mm-hmm. I love that. It's so important. Even if someone is in like a school environment a little bit or a lot bit, is to cultivate that love of learning wherever you are. And I try to do that on, you know, even a weekend trip. Like we can be curious, right? And also I consider when we were doing some camping like a couple of years ago, like "camp magic" is what I called it. When you get these kids together in a campground and they met each other five seconds ago, but yet they're like plotting how to scale a mountain or how to play this card game. We see it on some international travels too when these kids get together. It's like they can just really bond very quickly when they're in new surroundings.

Chris & Robin: Well, and that reminds me, we were in Yosemite and there was... I don't remember what their first names are. I'm just going to call them Gram and Gramps. And they were fishing and they saw all the campground kids and they're like, "Hey, kids, want to... you want to fish?" And Gram and Gramps are like, "Yeah, we'll teach you how to do a thing. And we know what the rules are. So nobody else touches a fishing pole. Kids are okay. Adults, you've got to have a license, whatever. But if they're with us, they're cool." Like cool! And they literally caught, I think it was trout, wasn't it? And so they caught the trout. They, what do they call it? Cleaned it. Cleaned it and then they cooked it for dinner and they're like, "Yeah, we'll just catch as many as it's going to take to feed everybody and we'll cook dinner tonight." And they got the most incredible experience. I mean, I'm not a fisher person and Gram and Gramps like totally took them all under their wing. I'm like, "Yeah, let's just, we'll do this." And so even to this day, our daughter's like, "That was so fun!"

Suzy: So you did a lot of domestic travel during the RV years. When did some more international travel come into play there and how has that looked for your family?

Chris & Robin: So we did the domestic travel because that was like our home. At that time, I was working for a regional airline, which is a smaller airline. So I wasn't getting paid as much as I do now. And so like it was just budget—like "How can we do this budget affordably?" And so that was part of it. And then so I changed jobs now and also my schedule changed. And so I now work in a... I'm going to call it an office job. I'm an instructor pilot. So I teach people to fly at the airline. And so that requires me to be in Denver all the time. And so what we do now is we do a couple of times a year, we'll do like a long time. So I'll manipulate my schedule with a little vacation and trading and stuff like that to get a long block of time off. And then that's why we do the international travel now is because now we can go somewhere for five, six weeks at a time and make that work with my work schedule without having to be gone from the kids all the time. Because when we were traveling in the RV, I still had to work. And so I don't work remotely. I have to go somewhere. Like a real pilot, you fly the plane. They need him to show up. So Robin and the kids would stay wherever we were parked, and then I would have to go to work. So they would do a bunch of stuff when I wasn't there. So now by doing the international blocks, we get to do it as a family and we all get to be a part of it. Part of it too, kind of as a reference back, you know, space available, we'd like business class, you have to be eight to sit in business class. And so going international before we were eight wasn't that much fun. But now that we're all eight, and so that was about the time that we made the change. Well, and the reality is too, I think the beauty of when he worked at the regional, we would park for a week and he would work for a week and then he would come back home and we would adventure for a week. So for our family rhythm, we did about a week on, week off schedule at that time.

Suzy: Yeah. And so to kind of tie it in with the financial logistical, which we've already touched on, which is great. What I'm hearing is that you were able to make work work for you and the lifestyle you wanted to live. And so of course there's always some give and take a little, some family flexibility or work flexibility, having to maybe position yourself near where you were. But I know that there are lots of jobs that I think you could travel or have some like temporary work over here. I know like travel nursing is one where you can pick up different assignments places. And of course, like with kids, you're going to need to have one parent that's with the kids usually, but that's where you can trade off. And maybe you get a little time off Robin when you know when you're home for a chunk and to balance it a little. But I think there's just ways to think about it that way.

Chris & Robin: Yeah. Usually. Yeah. Well, and for us too, I think, during that three-year period, I actually wrote Yucky Weather in 2019. So before we hit the road. But I was not at the point where I was ready to pursue publishing for so many reasons. Like our life was chaotic. We were getting ready to launch. He had been gone a lot and I just couldn't take on one more project. But what that three-year period gave us is it gave me time to be creative. It gave me a chance to like imagine what I want to do. And I think I mentioned earlier, both pilots by trade. We chose to pursue his career because he wanted to do the airlines and I really love general aviation, but I couldn't do general aviation the way that I wanted to because you have to be stationary in one place doing like one airport, not traveling all over the place. And so I kind of dabbled in flying and doing stuff for fun or with friends and stuff. And that was totally fine. And I love that. In fact, I still love that. But like the reality is, is like that flexibility, that give and take... like we chose to chase his career and that meant for us to move from Kansas to Virginia. And then eventually from Virginia, we chose to hit the road. Like, we took some really big risks. In fact, I remember some of my girlfriends called me and like, "Oh my gosh, are you guys like, okay? Like, what are you doing? You're going to the regionals?" It's like, "Yeah, we're taking a massive pay cut, moving to one of the most expensive places in the country and we're fine. We're going to live off savings for a while." And like, it'll be fine. It'll be fine. And we did a very calculated risk. And I think that's for us, the piece that a lot of people are like, "How in the world?" It was so mind-blowing. But I'm like, "Listen, we sold the house, put this much in savings. This is how much it's going to cost." And the kids knew. And this was actually a really awesome, hard conversation. The kids came home one day in Virginia, and they said, "Hey, Mom, little Joey is doing, I don't know, Taekwondo or karate or whatever. Can we do that?" And I said, "Well, let's get the information." And it was like $200 or $300 per kid per month. And I was like, "Okay... so like at that time, our grocery budget was like $600." And I was like, "So here's the numbers, kids." And they're like, "Yeah, I think I would like to eat." And so we taught them from a young age. We're like, "Listen, we want to do this, okay? And this is the reality of the situation." And so we taught them from a young age. Truly each of the kids has a budget. They understand how much money they make. They understand what the numbers are. And they understand that we have so much for eating out. We have so much for groceries. I think it's been a really amazing teaching tool to understand like, "Okay, yeah, going to Australia was really expensive, but also like we budget and we plan for it. And there's not anything else going on this year because that was all the fun there." And I think part of the reason we travel and part of the reason we do stuff is to learn and to educate. And so that was like a really key tool early on to understand that. The only time money grows on trees, as we learned from the Mayans, is if you pay in cocoa beans. But since we do not have cocoa beans in our backyard, we have to budget wisely. And so, you know, I know. I know. Although it also turns into chocolate. And so like it's that reward of "Do I want the chocolate? Or do I want the money?" Well, and I think too, like the kids understanding... like they... and this is so cool... like they're responsible. It's, "Well, Mommy, when we can afford it, I really want to do that." And so then when we eventually got to Denver and our finances allowed that flexibility, I was like, "Hey guys, like we have an opportunity for karate. Do you guys want to do it?" I'm like, "Yeah, let's try it for a semester. See how it goes." They had a great time. The two boys leveled up, they're yellow belts, I am still a white belt. But then they decided, you know, "That was really fun, we had a great time, but I don't really want to do this long term." And I'm like, "That's totally fine." So it's kind of fun to watch it come full circle because it's something that they wanted to do and they know that like, when we can support it, I will, but at that time I couldn't do it.

Suzy: Those are such important conversations about the wants versus needs a little bit, like "We need groceries." Karate's a little bit more of a want, but also let's make sure we keep this on our radar, plan for it. And I think travel is a lot about that—is that I know I get those questions too about doing it. And I'm like, there's a lot of ways to do it a little more affordably than you think. And also these are the other ways that I don't spend money because this is a value. So identifying those values, cutting out the things that aren't important and then opening up when there are more opportunities for that in the budget.

Chris & Robin: All right. Yeah. I think the coolest part is the kids understand because in Virginia, we had 50 bucks a month to eat out, that was it. We didn't have any money, and that was either one Chick-fil-A or a couple of pizzas, that was it. And they knew it was so special. And so it also emphasized "This is a treat," and it's being really intentional about how you're spending your money.

Suzy: When you're traveling a lot, you actually have more opportunities to have these conversations with your kids about, now you're on the road. You're having these daily conversations over, well, we could go eat at that restaurant or we could go cook at home because this is an activity we want to save up for this weekend. And you get to just have some of the more natural conversations when you're on the road. So the last trip was a couple months to Australia and New Zealand or just Australia? Oh, both. Okay, cool. And was this your first time all the way, or at least the kids, was this their first time down that way? Okay.

Chris & Robin: Yeah. Mine too. Yeah, first time to those. We had been to Asia before, so we'd done Japan and Korea and Guam before. This was our first time to Australia and New Zealand. And it was great. We started in Australia because that's where we could get seats. And then from there, we flew over to New Zealand. We did both islands. And I have some family over there that we were able to see while we were there, which was great because they were local. So they took us to all the local spots. And then we flew back to Australia and finished off. We got to go to the Great Barrier Reef and snorkeling there, which was so cool. Our middle child, she is autistic and she loves marine animals. That's her thing, right? She wants to save the world and all the animals in the ocean specifically. And I'm like, "Girl, you... you're going to do that. I have no doubt. Not a might. You will do that because you have so much passion for it." She's been asking to go to the Great Barrier Reef for as long as I can remember. These are pilot problems. So because that always has been her life dream, that was a priority. So we made sure that we booked that early. We made sure that we planned that. And that was the first thing that we booked. So that way we made sure we had the money to cover it versus other things. And then we just filled stuff in as we could. We really like to try to get into the locals as much as we can. So we went to a farmer's market and all of this kind... we went to a Christmas market. Did we send you a picture? Where was that? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Suzy: That was the one I think you shared in our WhatsApp group. Yes, it was perfect. It was great. In shorts!

Chris & Robin: A Christmas market when it's 90 degrees and shorts is a little different. I think it's like an iced coffee place. It does come iced, right? I don't want hot. That was really fun. So yeah, trying to find those connections is really important to us, to the locals. And it's just no matter where it is. The nice thing is, with our travels, like you plan A through Z, because you really don't know where you're going to end up. Like when we went to Europe last year, we knew the middle of the trip. So you can always plan the middle really easily because it's just the start and the end that you don't know. So you plan all the stuff that you want to do in the middle. And then the rest of it, you're like, "We'll figure it out when we get there." And then the day of you open the app and say, "Well, there's seats to London. I guess we're going to London today." And that's how we travel. And you don't know, you just kind of figure out, which is also kind of like a life lesson for the kids. You just figure it out. Like, oh, that flight that we booked to London, we all had seats on when we left Denver. But now that we land in Washington, the other one canceled and now they're all gone. So now we're going to Frankfurt. And like you just learn to adjust, which is a life skill. You know, things change all the time and having that flexibility. From an early age our kids are very resilient and adaptable in that regard. And I think that's one thing travel teaches that you just can't get in normal day-to-day life is because especially for children, their lives are so structured. They wake up, they go to school, school is structured, you come home, home is structured, you know, mom and dad have work or even if one parent stays home, there's still like... there's dinner at a certain time and bedtime at a certain time. Like traveling, you can have structure, but it's a different type of structure. This structure is more inside of the household and less external, where if you're doing a normal life, which there's nothing wrong with the normal life, but the structure comes from external to internal. And so I think it's different. And I think it builds more well-roundedness to have that travel aspect of it.

Suzy: Absolutely, it is a great skill to have a little bit of this internal compass that tells you where to go instead of only relying on the things around you. And so if kids have chances to develop that, like anytime I can like let my kids run around or be outside or take some leadership in some way or another that I'm okay with. And I think it's great to have that.

Chris & Robin: I was going to say, just, I think there's a quote that says something like... it's a sailing quote, also an aviation quote, where they say "You can't change the wind, but you can adjust your sails," or "You can't change the wind, but you can adjust your course." And it's the same concept, you know, flying, sailing, you can't change the weather, but you can adjust your attitude, you can adjust your plans, you can roll with it. And I think that's just, like you said, a life skill.

Suzy: That is so important. So you've shared a lot about RV traveling and some of the international travel, is there a one-month spending snapshot that you could share?

Chris & Robin: So when we were doing RV stuff, our monthly budget was $5,000. And because that was our home, that included everything. So that was the RV, the campgrounds, the food. And that was comfortable. Obviously that was pandemic and slightly after so inflation, it might be a little bit more now, but we still have friends that do it for less than that. You can do it pretty economically if you choose to and we still have fun. Like we still went and explored so it wasn't just like sitting at home. And so then when we travel now we try to keep it to around the same five or six thousand dollars a month but that's not including the home stuff that's... the fun travel part, yeah. The fun travel part, we try to keep it, you know...

Suzy: The home stuff. Yes.

Chris & Robin: The trip that we did to Australia was a little bit more, but we knew we were doing that and we knew it was going to be a little bit bigger. So we budgeted a little extra for that, but we try to still keep it... Now, obviously we have the advantage that I don't have to pay to get there. So that's a huge, that's a huge part. I keep joking with Robin that I need to get her a part-time job with Marriott so then we can figure out how to get the hotels for cheap. But we do in that regard. Yeah.

Suzy: That's huge! Yes! If you can have accommodation and flights covered, I mean, you're golden.

Chris & Robin: We do a lot of Airbnbs and we try to do a week or longer. We're to the point in our life where our kids don't share beds very well with each other. And so like doing hotels with five of us just does not work at all. And so we definitely do the Airbnb and that also with the kitchen that allows us to save quite a bit of money on the food and cooking and that stuff.

Suzy: And space for the classes and people to spread out and do their work or have their own personal space when you're there longer, it makes sense.

Chris & Robin: And I think for, yeah, yes, yes. Yeah, exactly. And I think for us, like between kids needing not only their own personal space—mental, emotional space—but like you just mentioned, schoolwork. So important to have the space for schoolwork. And then we can also plan our adventures around like maybe we're home in the morning and do a little bit of school and then we're going to know we're going to be gone at noon and we're going to be out late. And so all we're bringing is snacks and having dinner out. So we really kind of manage our in and out time to kind of like be the best of both worlds. So we're only maybe eating out one meal and having one meal at home. And RV is really popular in the United States, but it's popular other places too. Like we were in New Zealand, my goodness, there are camper vans everywhere. Australia is the same way. And I know you can do camper vans in Europe. So it is possible to do it depending on your family needs and stuff. You can do it in a lot of different places, just not in the United States. But it's a great gateway, right? Go try it. You can rent one. You don't have to buy one. It is great to see if you like the lifestyle and the traveling. And it is different doing it that way.

Suzy: Exactly.

Chris & Robin: Convenient in some regards and less convenient in others. So for us, obviously, we're blessed to live in the United States. The United States is huge. It's the same size as Europe. And so there's so many things you can do domestically without needing a passport and without needing to think about some of these other complications. And then get your feet wet and do that and like it. And then if you like it, then you can move on to something else. It doesn't have to be one or the other either. We still do take trips domestically. Just because we can go to Europe or Asia or something doesn't mean like... we have a friend that's doing something like, we'll just fly in for the weekend. And part of that is, once again, our benefits, but like we still take... well, we still took the RV out last summer and we did all summer up in Oregon and Washington and we went to Canada too. So that doesn't involve always flying, but it still has that travel component to it.

Suzy: And culture. I mean, there are so many different cultures within the United States, to be honest, accents. The more I'm in Europe, I like start to recognize like how Europe is so diverse because there's so many different languages and that's so true and so much history. But there are very different parts of the US and I think when you're out and about in an RV, you really get to know people and people are what make a place awesome.

Chris & Robin: Yeah, oh yeah. There is. Yep.

Suzy: I mean, people just want to get to know you. People are very welcoming. And you really get to see that when you're on the road in an RV.

Chris & Robin: You're talking about getting to know people is how the kids really from a young age have talked to people of all ages. And that's something that a lot of people tell me. They say, "Wow, your kids will talk to an 80-year-old person and an eight-year-old." And it's so true because a lot of times when you're in a classroom, they only talk to people their age. And so that's something that I have really enjoyed about my kids. And sometimes the older generations are kind of surprised. They're like, "Oh my gosh, your kid just talked to me!" I'm like, "Well, you are a person and they like people, so yeah."

Suzy: Yes, I think the more multi-generational opportunities we have, the better because, I mean, we need to understand where people are coming from, from all different backgrounds, right? But yeah.

Chris & Robin: Yes. Our youngest loves that. He will literally go and find the oldest person and be like, "So where are you from? Tell me, what's it like there?"

Suzy: I bet they're just like, "I want to tell you my whole life story!" That's so cool.

Chris & Robin: Yeah, yeah, and he'll come back and be like, "Yeah, I met Joe. He's pretty cool. He's had a good life." Like, "Who's Joe?"

Suzy: I love it. Well, we've talked about some really good parts about all the different travels you've taken. What are some of the challenges?

Chris & Robin: So the biggest challenge we have is our middle child is autistic. So when you're dealing with somebody who has a quote-unquote disability, you have to accommodate that person. So like when we went to Australia, we had five suitcases. One of them was nothing but food. Because food is a challenge for her and so learning what we can bring with her to accommodate her... So like it was nice in the sense like as we ate through our food that gave us space to bring the stuff home that we bought. Like you just have to figure out what you need and make sure that that's the priority. And so that and also too like learning for her needs... like if it was up to me we would be going all day every day because there's so much more to see and I love to do it, but that fast pace doesn't work for everybody else either. And so like, especially with the family balancing—balancing everybody's needs and figuring out what they want. And like we had to learn like it's okay if not everybody does everything. Like if I want to go do something and the children don't want to do that, as long as it's not like super critical, they get to stay home and they're old enough now they can stay home. And especially when we're doing school on the road, making sure we take time enough that they're not feeling rushed and doing school, make that a priority. So that's the biggest challenge is balancing everybody's needs. And that's a conversation you have to have. It's not a conversation you have at the beginning, it's every week, it's a check-in. "Hey, how are we doing? This is what we had planned. Do we still want to do this?" And because we try to book things that are refundable... every time we book lodging, it will be 100% refundable. We went to Romeo and Juliet at the Sydney Opera House, which was like a pretty cool experience, like to be able to do that. But halfway through it, one of the kids was done. She's like, "I'm out. I'm over this." And so like we just adapt—so her and I went and we went and found a place to eat. And it's being that adaptable and flexible, I think is... and communication. It's all about the communication. This trip was, I think, by far our most successful trip so far because we understood regulation, what she needed to physically be emotionally calm. We understood her food needs. We understood not only like what we could pack, but what we could find. Like, so for us, one of the pro tips I always talk about is she needs garlic salt. She loves pasta. We can get that at almost every restaurant, but she needs garlic salt. And so we travel with garlic salt and she has it in her purse. And I bring extras with us in case that one spills. And, you know, like oatmeal in the morning... chocolate chips may or may not be hard to find internationally. Learned that one in France. And like the biggest thing I think was so successful for this one is that everything we learned a year ago in France, I was able to transfer.

Suzy: Mm-hmm.

Chris & Robin: Because a year prior, we had tried to figure out exactly what we needed to do, but we're like, "She eats bread." Well, apparently, French bread, a baguette in France, she could not get over certain sensory aspects of it. And so once she figured out the inside was really soft, she just needed somebody to crack open the outside, then we could crack it open, then she would wallop like the inside. And so figuring out what is going to make the hard less hard or more manageable or more approachable. And so if you are a person who has a kid with food difficulties, or maybe you have food difficulties, try to figure out what some of those staples are and then how to be able to make the world work for you because you've got to eat to live. Also another pro tip is those straws, the expandable metal straws. So you know we just anticipate these things and she knows now how to handle the situation. And so going from France, "I won't touch French bread baguettes," to Australia where she can more successfully navigate food, was huge. And I want to talk about one RV thing while we're on the food topic. Grocery stores are not consistent. And one of the reasons that we ended up in Denver, not only for his job, was because we needed to figure out what sensory support she needed.

Suzy: Yes, absolutely.

Chris & Robin: So for her, there was one applesauce, one cheesestick, she ate chicken and pasta. Those, like... we're talking less than 20 foods at this point. And so we were like, "Oh my gosh, like, what is going on?" And so it got increasingly difficult to find consistency with food on the road. And so that was a really big struggle for us. Now, if you're a person who loves food, eats anything, awesome. I love that for you. I'm a little jealous, if I'm being honest. But that was really difficult, because there was not a lot of consistency in brands or very specific things that can be really tricky on the road.

Suzy: So your version now of traveling where you get to take these longer chunks and bring an entire suitcase of food with you actually almost works better for what you've learned your kids' needs are than being full-time RVing on the road. So I think there's still a way to fit travel in there is what I'm hearing is based on any like kids' needs, like there's just a way to adapt it.

Chris & Robin: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yeah.

Suzy: Meets all the needs of all the five people. And I always go back to thinking, I've done a lot of solo travel. I love solo travel. And also I really do like to travel with my family. And so I'm like, yes, this is a little trickier because we have to balance four different people's needs, five different people's needs. But I would still take this every day over not having this opportunity.

Chris & Robin: Right. Yeah. Yeah. I think the thing that I hear the most from people who have kids on the autism spectrum are like, "Well, we don't want to do the thing because... fill in the blank... they have autism, this is hard, this is whatever." It's like... but also, how can you not? Because you don't have the luxury of having a world that is going to always accommodate. And so sometimes getting stuck in an airport, not getting on the airplane... like our kids have learned the skill to say, "Okay, we might make it on, we might not, I still get to hang out in the airport." And a lot of airports now have like sensory rooms and like quieter areas, which I love because there's a lot of overwhelm in the world. And so sometimes I'll just go in there and like take some deep breaths. I'm like, "My gosh, I'm so much more relaxed." Like...

Suzy: What I'm hearing is you didn't start from like maybe no travel to like "let's go for weeks or months on end abroad," right? So you built up to it and learned what works for your kids. And so by the time you put your kids into newer and newer situations, they were a little more adapted. So I appreciate you bringing up like with neurodiversity because I think a lot of parents of neurodiverse kiddos do opt for maybe homeschooling or alternative education opportunities because they're finding that maybe the public school system just doesn't offer them those same supports or it's lacking in some area or it's good for a while because there are sometimes additional supports within the school system, but then it doesn't always meet their needs fully. So I think it's just about finding what works best for you and maybe finding a community to work with too and give you ideas. And I feel like you shared a lot of great tips already. So thank you for sharing all that. Let's end with some of the positive parts about family travel. What are some wins either currently or things that you've learned along the way?

Chris & Robin: I love watching my kids show interest in the things they didn't know existed and then jumping into that. My oldest is a history buff or turning into a history buff. Like we went to France last year and I asked like, he's like, "Hey, what do you want to see in France?" And he starts... I want to go to all these like battlefields. And like, next thing I know we're in trenches in France. This is where bombs are blowing up and just watching them grow and each finding their own little thing that's important to them. And then having the ability to explore that. So that's what I really like.

Chris & Robin: And I think for me... so I had all these aspirations. So I love food and I was like, "I'm going to like do this thing." And then I have a kid who generally has difficulties with food and recognizing that not everybody loves food is hard for me. But also like the kids and experiencing food in different cultures has been so fun. Like I grew up eating sauerkraut for every holiday because my family of origin is Polish. And so that was like so reminiscent like when we went to Germany and to all those places to have like sauerkraut. And so I don't make sauerkraut to be very clear. I'm sure it's not that hard. I just don't make it. And so for my kids to experience sauerkraut and then for them to really enjoy it has been fun. Or like when we were in France and they're like... I don't know if they had hot crepes before France. I love crepes. I grew up making crepes. And so for them to experience crepes and like... like it's like a hotdog stand just makes crepes. And they're like, "Yes, I'd like one of those and one of those and one of those." And so that's... that's been my favorite part is the food with the travel.

Suzy: Mark makes really good crepes, by the way. So maybe for our August get-together, we'll have to do like a brunch and we can have some like sliced strawberries and Nutella and all the fun stuff and we can have like a crepe brunch at the park. That sounds awesome. I love to end with a lightning round. And let's start with: You can only ever visit or live in three countries. What are they?

Chris & Robin: Germany, Canada, and Japan. And wherever Chris is going, I'm in.

Suzy: Good choices. Stick together as a family. I like it. We did just talk a little bit about food. What has been the best and the worst food that you've experienced?

Chris & Robin: So I'm going to answer this differently, because I'm not a big food person either, but I love barbecue everywhere because it's different. Some places are amazing and some places not so amazing. And you would be surprised at them. Sometimes the really good places are not what you were expecting. And so I like trying the same food, different places to see how they're different. For me, I'm on the other end of the spectrum. I don't like spicy food, so that would be a terrible experience for me with food. But I do love what I call Japan cakes, which are pancakes in Japan. And they're these fluffy, like souffle, delicious stuff. And you've got to put like Nutella and whipped cream. And it's just like... it's an experience. It's amazing.

Suzy: That sounds delicious. What is your favorite subject to world school?

Chris & Robin: History. Yep, definitely history.

Suzy: Like you said, when you're in the trenches in France, it just makes it come so alive. I love that. And one piece of advice for a family just starting out.

Chris & Robin: Try it because you'll find something that you like about it and you'll want to do it again and you'll learn and the next time you do it again it's better and so just try it. Yeah, I think for me it's just roll with it because you cannot plan... like I don't even remember where we were—the Grand Tetons—it was our son's birthday and it started a torrential downpour and we were on a hiking trail and I'm like, "Well wonder how long this rain's going to be here for." Okay I guess we're just going to roll with it and, you know, maybe always take an umbrella. Yeah, right? Yeah, and the kids are like, "Mom, why do you like this weather? It's yucky." I'm like, "I know, but I love yucky weather."

Suzy: For that yucky weather. To link back, you know, yeah. Because you have opportunities to learn and grow when... when we're not always given a perfectly sunny day.

Chris & Robin: Right. Well, it's the last line in the book and it literally says "For when the storms have gone away, you might just miss a yucky day." So just, you know, enjoy what you've got when you've got it.

Suzy: That's so perfect. I love it. This has been so great. I do want to make sure I link all of your information in the show notes.

Chris & Robin: It's been so fun to talk to you. Thank you for your time. For crepes, like we have to wait until...

Suzy: I know, this has been so... We will be back in Colorado in July. So yeah, that's going to be a summertime crepe. Unless you get a trip over to Spain before then, let me know.

Chris & Robin: Okay, okay, all right, all right. The plane I fly, they just announced a new route to Spain this... starting this summer. So I'm trying to figure out how to get onto that.

Suzy: If there could be a Denver to Madrid, my life would be so much easier than always figuring out how else to connect. Denver is expanding. I would say not as quickly as I wish they would, but this has been so great to chat more with you guys and we'll have to catch up soon. Thank you so much. I'll... I'll... let me just turn off the recording part.

Chris & Robin: Thank you, Suzy.