Suzy

Welcome to the Wander Worldschool Podcast. I'm Suzy, a travel-loving money nerd, mom of two, and our family lives between Spain and Colorado. On this show, we discuss the stories, logistics, and finances of traveling families and the many ways to learn along the way. Today we get to know Natalie and David.

David

Thank you.

Suzy

Absolutely. Tell me more about you and your family and where you're joining this call from today.

David

Right now we are—we are in between our terms, so we were hosting in Mumbai.

Suzy

And I can't wait to hear more about Harmony Alternative and the education platform you have and the different opportunities. We'll jump into that. Tell me more about the ages of your kids.

David

So we have three children of our own. They're ten, seven, and four. And they are traveling with us. And ironically, only one of them is in the project currently because she's ten and our project to date has only been for ten to fifteen-year-olds. But in Vietnam, we're introducing a Roots cohort which is for ages four to nine. So it will be really exciting for our two younger ones to have some opportunities to join in on everything Harmony.

But at the same time, they've been loving also getting to know some of the older learners and it's really cool to see how older learners can totally take on a different kind of personality when they're supporting little ones. So my youngest son, who's four, has absolutely loved some of the 14-year-olds. It's been really sweet to see those connections blossom.

Suzy

I do like when different age kids can be together. They really get to learn to, like, take care and be taken care of in a different way than just within a family. But before we talk about your family travels and more about Harmony Alternative, I'd love to understand a little more about what travel was like for you each, that helps give us an understanding of where this love for travel started.

David

There it is. We met in Thailand 15 years ago. We were both working at international schools there in Koh Samui and so that's where we met and then basically since then we've traveled our whole time. We were both international teachers which makes it very easy to move; there's always jobs and so you get two-year contracts and then we would tend to head off and keep moving and then we've lived in Thailand, then we moved to Spain, then we moved to the UK for a bit, and then Cyprus, and then we moved to the Seychelles, and then we moved to Canada, and then to Italy, and then back to the Seychelles, and then to Portugal, and then now we are on this trip.

So we have moved a lot, but we also love traveling. We, you know, we—everywhere we've lived we've always done a lot of traveling as well and the kids really enjoy traveling. They're very flexible and seem to enjoy the sun and so, you know, we've moved around a lot. But I think as younger people as well, when I was a child we did a lot of traveling with my family and I'm from the UK so we headed off quite a lot. Can you guys travel a lot too? Yes, we can. Being Canadian we've headed down—yeah, we've been in touch so very many times. Then both David and I in our 20s left home early to go and work and live abroad, just doing different things. David was in Australia and Canada and I had gone to Switzerland for work. So we were both kind of, as soon as we could, just out in the world. So it hasn't really stopped to be honest.

Suzy

International teaching is absolutely a way to get to see the world. So I think that's a really great launching point for people that like to travel and want to find a way to work around the world. When did that venture away from that take place?

David

Well, that stopped when she was first pregnant, so 10 years ago. And then basically been teaching, but at home, obviously we've always home-educated our children. They've never been to school. And then my previous role, a year ago, I was the director of an international school in Portugal. And that was our last educational role, I guess, in an international school. And then I quit in the summer and we started this project in September. So it was, you know, started to begin whilst we were in Portugal and I was in my position. But we already started to have conversations with people and started to think about what this might look like by, I guess a year ago, by March last year, we kind of knew that this was what we would be doing, so starting to transition out of my job.

Suzy

You both have the teaching background, but since you've had the children, you mentioned that they've been home-educated. I'm curious what your approach to education has been, especially while traveling.

David

Yeah, that's a really good question. So I think I started off kind of in more of the traditional sense of like trying to bring school at home, just with my teaching background. And I really felt a lot of resistance from my daughter, like it didn't feel easy and I would be frustrated. And I started to look into all different pedagogies and started to bring in Montessori and Waldorf and so many things and they all added something to our day that was really special and I still love some of those aspects.

But what I ended up feeling worked the best for our family was definitely like following her interests and like self-directed learning and inquiry-based learning because when she was leading and it was everything that she loved then obviously it just flowed so much more smoothly and I didn't feel that same frustration or resistance and I started to see, you know, over those 10 years is how she will learn everything in her own time.

I used to worry about her reading. That's always one that families struggle with the most because she wasn't reading at a certain age. But I love books so much and we really treasure books. It's something that I have shipped all around the world. I think that that's one of the biggest things is when you role model different passions or love or interests and then children are exposed to them and there's such big opportunities there for having a chance to engage with those things, whatever it is.

So reading, I think, did just come naturally because we all kind of, you know, in the evening we all kind of get into bed and read our books and she started to do the same and it just was natural. The more and more basically we both have read and researched and looked into and observed inquiry-based learning and interest-based learning, place-based learning—David even working with me in school, then us at home—for us it feels really right. We're really big believers in that.

Yeah, it's always clashed with our jobs because people are always asking, "You're not going to send your child to the school?" because in a lot of international schools you get to send your children for free. I worked in Florence where tuition there was 100,000 euros a year and you could send your child for free, but we continued to homeschool there. But I just can never imagine my children sat at a desk all day, you know, in like a traditional sense. So it's always been a bit of a clash, hasn't it, for us? I mean, this is what we do as a job, but we don't truly believe in it. So this project obviously was that natural progression for us into something that we really believe in as an educational style.

So much to learn and we don't stop as individuals and we just don't think that you need to be in a school with brick and mortar and regiments and schedules and someone coming from the top down with the information. We think that it doesn't need to look like that and that's kind of where our passion with Harmony Alternative really grew. What do we want to see? And then just making up a dream list of everything we can imagine.

Suzy

I think teachers, when you have that background, you know how amazing it can be when it connects with children and they light up at the things they get to learn, but you also see that there's this structure that doesn't work for every kid at every stage. And it's really hard. You have such a passion for learning and teaching. And so share with me a little more about what Harmony Alternative is.

David

It started very broadly I think because we weren't totally sure about what we wanted or needed to do. So we knew that we wanted to spread this different idea of education. So I agree with you, you said I think some kids love school and it works really well for them and they can sit at a desk and learn and eat, but a lot of children can't and we pigeon-hole everyone into this school box and it doesn't fit everyone.

So our idea initially was that we would help alternative schools because alternative schools around the world who were saying to us that, you know, they're generally for younger children and by the time that children get to 10 or 11 there's nowhere for them to go. They either go to maybe worldschool hubs which seem to be catered more for younger children or they go into a school system and there is no—there is very limited alternative education for older kids. So that's where a lot of our discussions kind of revolved around at the beginning. What is there out there for children once they leave the primary school, once they leave elementary school?

And I guess that's kind of where the global classroom idea came from, because the initial idea was, let's put together a curriculum that we can share with schools, and we can help them deliver something a bit different, a bit more place-based, a bit more inquiry-based. And actually the original idea came from a discussion with a lady called Dara who actually is in Lombok and she was our connection in Lombok when we were there. And she owns a school called Wanderman Cultural School. And she was basically saying, "We've got some children that are getting to this age, I can't have them anymore, but they want to stay in sort of alternative education."

So I'd reached out to a few other schools and pitched this idea that what we could do is I would help develop a curriculum and the kids would do one term with one school, one term with another school, one term with another school because it meant that we could have traveling teachers there and there was a whole idea around this. But then that just kind of snowballed into people getting in touch with us and hearing about this idea saying, "Actually this is something we're interested in," because initially Harmony Alternative was established as: we will do this in the kind of background while I work my job and we'll just have this kind of thing running in the background as a kind of an alternative thing that maybe will turn into something at some point.

But it really quickly turned into something massive. And I was finishing work, getting home and just having meetings with parents and schools because so many people had heard about this and were super interested until they got to the stage where we had to say, "I can't do both things." So it was an easy decision to go for it because it's something that we really thought about and so right now, because the global classroom project takes up a hundred percent of our time, we've really focused on this now.

I think the idea is that we could make this into a blueprint and a model of what learning can look like and then we can maybe start sharing that a bit more with other schools because there's only two of us. And right now we just want to make it work really well and then start sharing those ideas and putting it out there for other people to explore as well because I think this is a style of education for our daughter. She's 10, she's never been to school and she loves being part of this project. She's up every day packing her bag. On a Saturday she's asking when it's Monday. She really can't wait to get there. When she's there she just—she's the ideal student, she's super engaged, she just loves everything about the project. So it's really great for her and a lot of the other kids that are there as well really embrace this style of learning because they've tried school and it's not worked for them.

Suzy

Yes. Let's get into a little more about what the global classroom project looks like, what has already taken place. And then also I know there's some big launching in the fall with different programs, right? With Peru, Argentina and Chile.

David

So the main project obviously was focused on pre-teens and teens, so from 10 to 15. And this year we were in Koh Lanta, Lombok, and then we're heading to Vietnam next. The structure is that it's a 10-week program. And it is a program that supports homeschooling families, or worldschooling families, because we're not a school, we're not educating the kids per se, we're just giving them the opportunity to do two things. One, to be a community because the feedback we got from a lot of teenagers and pre-teens was they love worldschooling and they love travel but they really want to make friends and they go to a worldschool for two weeks then go to another and then go to another and they really want that consistency.

So when we started to develop this idea it was with that in mind—that we would produce something that is for a year and that the children that are joining us could really make strong friendships and that has been the case so far for the two terms. And then the second piece was to try to make something a bit more structured because again, the hubs and traveling, there's no consistency. They learn something, they forget about it. So what we've tried to do is we've built a curriculum around what we're doing so that every activity that we do, every place we go to, every person we speak to has been really well thought out about, how does this connect to a kind of theme of the week?

So for example, in week one, we might have a theme of—we have a broad theme, but kind of an academic theme of geometry, and in English, poetry, and in science, ecology. And so we try to pick activities where the children will be able to be exposed to something really cool, but then look through those lenses at, you know, well, how can I see geometry here? So when we're there, we just kind of show them examples of, "Look, you could look at this, look at these shapes, maybe you could go and count the shapes, maybe you could draw some shapes."

So we're trying to model how to use the world as a textbook because you don't need to be sat at a school looking at a textbook and I've shown them textbooks and said, "Look, look at the activities in here, now think about when we went here, you were doing this; this is written in a textbook but you were actually at that place getting the information yourself, taking the actual measurements yourself and then applying it." You can use everything around you to learn. You have all the tools and it's just about, you know, learning how to use them.

And then the second piece of it all is that we encourage them to work on projects because a lot of these children maybe won't be going into schools and they won't be doing exams and there's a lot of fear around, "Well, what happens when I'm 18 and I want to go to college?" And I've done lots of research on this previously and I'm aware that a lot of schools now and colleges and universities accept portfolios. So part of the project that we are working on is having the children work on their own portfolios and that is kind of the passion piece, their project.

So when you're in Lombok, what are you going to produce that you couldn't have produced if you weren't in Lombok, if you hadn't met this person, if you hadn't been to this place? And what is it that you love? Do you love designing games? Do you love drawing? Do you love writing stories? So you can take that passion and apply it based on all the experiences that we've had in this place. So at the end, you come out with your own project piece and then you come out with having thought a little bit about some of these skills in these core subjects whilst we're out and about.

Now we do have a mathematician attached to us that joins us online every week, just to give the kids a bit more depth in some of those skills, because I can do math at a low level, but we want them to really sort of be able to push themselves. So they meet with him online for an hour and a half once a week. So he will talk to them about trigonometry this week: how do you do it, what should you be looking for? So when they're going out they can try to use that trigonometry.

My background is in humanities and languages so I can help with that and Ava's our other facilitator and her background is in science so she helps them think about science. So it's, you know, we're really just trying to guide them and give them that structure and those friendships to learn together. But it is very much a homeschooling support. We do push it back to the parents and say, "You know, you are also part of this." We are not a school, we're not an education piece. We're just there to really help guide you and your children to learn better and learn through place rather than having to sit at home at a desk. We're making tweaks as we go along. We're definitely learning this year about what's working and what's not working. But the idea is that that will then be a blueprint that we can lift into other locations.

And I guess that then moves it into next year. Maybe I'll let you talk about that. We were going to do Southeast Asia again, but we've had so much interest from people who want to go to South America. But we love Southeast Asia. We want to stay with this route. So we want to keep it too. And then the second thing is that we have so many parents get in touch with us and say, "I have an eight-year-old and this is exactly what I'm looking for. Will you take them?" But we only take 10 to 15. So next year we will have two cohorts running through each project. So for Southeast Asia, we'll have the younger group, which we call Roots, and there'll be maybe 10 of those children. And then the older group will be 15 in the main project.

Yeah, so obviously David is the lead facilitator this year and brings all of his experience and I see myself as the background and future thinker so I do a lot of the linking of local experts and bringing in the planning for the future whereas he's working in the now, always working in the now of the day-to-day so we all have our pieces if you wish to the puzzle.

What I bring I suppose is that my biggest passion is mindfulness and meditation and yoga and we feel really strongly about that being an important part of the learning of the alternative because while I trained in yoga over 10 years ago and I use it every day with my own children—so my own practice never had the luxury of being separate from my children—so when I woke up in the morning and did my thing, you know, they were part of it and really loved it actually and grew to bring in their own version anyway. There was never any pressure, but the point was just to teach them because I wish I would have learned when I was so young how to regulate my emotions, how to just deal with feelings and how to gain focus.

So I think it's really important for children to get exposed and to have the opportunity to even learn. I mean, yoga is one aspect in terms of how to move with grace, move your body, strengthen the body. And I love all of that, but I think the deepest part is definitely the meditation and the focus and the mindfulness. So every day starts with yoga. I can see how it has a big impact for our learners because some of them have never been exposed to it. They're teens so there's a lot of hormones and a lot of stuff going on mentally, emotionally. They actually seem to really love that stillness or that Shavasana we call it at the end where you're lying down. It's just so amazing to see how much of it benefits them and helps them to carry themselves in a different way throughout the day.

And then in terms of the locations for next year, that's kind of again where I am doing future planning. So I selected three locations for South America: Pisac, Peru, and then Bariloche in Argentina and then Chile. I'm really excited about those locations for the families and it's going to be a Spanish immersion for the three terms so that people will have the opportunity to continue the Spanish throughout each term. We will have a bilingual facilitator and the idea is that from the beginning maybe more of the learning will be supported in English, slowly going to be fully in Spanish by the end. That seemed to be something families were super interested in. In fact, I see a lot of interest in Spanish acquisition. So that's really cool.

And Southeast Asia will be also running simultaneously. In the first term, we went to a northern part of Thailand that we absolutely fell in love with because it was very relaxed. So we're going to host there and kind of split our time there because it is a bit slow-paced. So we're looking at doing Koh Chang. And then we'll do the last three weeks either on the Andaman coast or with a farm that I'm very keen to partner with in the Chiang Mai area. And then Hoi An and then Sri Lanka for the third term because for me, when I am organizing it, it really depends on the partnerships.

We're very big believers in organic farming and permaculture and just learning from people who are doing skills and bringing them in because certainly we don't have all the skills and that's something as a homeschooling mom, I struggled with it, you know? I don't have all the answers and I was always trying to find who out there can teach us this, and I love seeing people just do what they love doing and bringing them in and that's a big part of Harmony is those partnerships.

For example, in Koh Lanta, I'm very interested and I think a lot of learners were interested in sustainable architecture and so we flew in a bamboo architect who had helped design Panyaden School in Chiang Mai to come down to Koh Lanta for a three-day workshop with his team, with all the bamboo, and they built an entire structure for an upcycling center, which will have a permanent positive impact for that community. It is really important to look at: what are we doing? Why are we doing it? And is it going to benefit the community or is it just benefiting us? And to try to show that what we do can be done with a purpose and a meaning for also the place we are.

I think that goes back to what our days look like as well, because, you know, we start every day with yoga and meditation. And then mostly we then head off and we try to use a lot of the money that we spend goes towards facilitators and goes towards different activities that we're doing, but Natalie works really hard on trying to find things that you couldn't just do as a tourist. And a lot of the things that we ended up doing are because we had made connections.

So we really try to make sure that they're experiencing things that they couldn't normally do. And then these people are experts in their field. That's how we try to show them learning. And with the languages in Southeast Asia, for us, it's super important that the kids try to learn some language because we think it's a really important part of emerging into the culture, showing respect. So we have with us every term a language teacher that joins us for five hours a week and helps the learners to get some of the language. And the next day, they will go take them somewhere to use that language and be there to kind of prompt them and children really embrace that I think and really love learning the language and being able to try to use it.

Suzy

I love everything about it. The project-based learning, the community integration, the language integration. And like you said, if you're learning the language and then you're going out there and practicing it in a guided environment, it helps kids with that confidence piece. Sounds like families will arrange their own accommodation.

David

We spoke to a lot of hubs before we started this project and everyone said don't touch accommodation because the families that were joining us—and some of them have been on these kind of projects—all said, "We love the community but we also love our independence; we want to be able to be with our children as well." But what's happened, I think, with our group is that the community has really come together. Once the day ends at 2:30, all the children go and meet at the beach, and all the parents meet during the day for coffee or go and do yoga. So it actually has become a really nice community as well.

And a nice thing that we kind of tried in Lombok was the last week, we did five days on an organic farm that was in a very off-the-grid remote area and everybody had their own guest house or accommodation but very close and the kids actually got to camp on site. It felt like a bonding final week to have that close proximity at the end. So I'm liking that and thinking of carrying that through now as a theme.

But to answer your question, we push everything back to parents: visas, accommodation, flights, because again, you know, we're not running a travel school or, you know, boarding school; we are just here to kind of organize activities and for the children to come and help guide them and structure it that way. So really these families, they're all worldschooling and they're all homeschooling and I think for them it's important that they have that responsibility.

Suzy

Sometimes people that have been traveling for a while, they know what they like in terms of accommodations and the price points that work for them. And it is nice to leave some of that onto the family so that they can be happy with their choices and really focus on what you guys do best with the curriculum and community. What will the program look like for the Roots, which is those four to nine-year-olds?

David

So in Hoi An it's going to be led by a friend, a Montessori teacher. So it is quite Montessori-based because that's her passion and her background. But after this, Kate will probably be looking at moving abroad and getting a job in an international school as a Montessori teacher. So from that point, we are still looking at hiring. So hello, everybody listening!

But definitely we are open to different pedagogies, but at the end of it all, what's really important is, again, the place-based. And I think Montessori does value place-based and inquiry-based. So that still feels aligned when I speak to Kate. Yeah, it's just a mini version of the main project really. I mean, the idea is still the same—that these families are homeschooling and worldschooling and we're just bringing people together and helping organize the activities for them to learn and be a community.

But they probably will do shorter hikes or they won't do—like in Lombok, we took the children to a shark fishing market and it was pretty intense. There were like 40 dead sharks there and the kids were just walking around and just observing it. Some of the kids were crying. It was quite emotional. So those things for the older kids are, I think, a really cool part of the project and really made them reflect on where we were. And we talked about, "What is this? Is it a bad thing? These people, this is their livelihood." It's really important discussions.

For the younger children, obviously, we wouldn't take them to a place like that. But the idea is the same—that they will be doing place-based learning, that we'll really think hard about what activities are really going to benefit them. Because each week has a theme, each term has a theme, and we really think hard about trying to make connections for the week so the kids can make those connections as well.

Suzy

Makes sense. And I do like project-based learning because it really does connect things from so many different subjects, which is, I think, where sometimes school silos that. Whereas when you bring it all together in a project, you see how the math interplays with the culture and the language, and it just makes it more real. And I think it's easier for the kids to synthesize all that together. So I love that that's a big core tenet of it. But I also think it's important to talk about the ups and the downs of choosing a travel lifestyle, putting on a program like this. What are some of the challenges? And then we'll also talk about the wins, of course.

David

Well, there's many. I mean, we've lived abroad for a long time. So we know we were very fortunate that we have very supportive families. My parents live in the UK and Natalie's parents live in Canada. Actually, they're here now in Bali with us just visiting. So we're very lucky that we have that.

But obviously, it's hard not being near your family, especially with children and especially for our parents—with the grandparents, they miss the kids a lot. So that aspect is difficult and we're a long way from home and it's very expensive to fly five of us. This year we've been very good at getting rid of stuff because when we've moved internationally we've always kind of taken a lot of things with us. And so this year we had five suitcases. We talked to the kids a lot about packing very carefully. I mean, our kids are super flexible and they can play with sticks outside and be happy all day. They don't need toys per se.

But I think it's harder, isn't it? You know, moving from house to house and living in other people's houses is a challenge sometimes. You know, sometimes we just say, "Oh, it'd be nice just to be in our own house with a fire and just have no concerns about having to clean it after we leave," or whatever. So that movement is true.

Suzy

And then soon you get itchy feet and you want to go travel anyhow.

David

I think inevitably, I mean, David and I have both been traveling separately and together now for way too long that I don't know how to settle. But there's that longing sometimes. And I think that that's why it's great that we do this, at least what we think is a bit slower in terms of—it's basically two months we're in a location with those families. So you do get to the point by those eight weeks that you're like, "I'm ready for a change." So we find that that's really nice.

And then we have a long break between when we finish in Vietnam to when the program starts again, which I think is essential actually because we don't want to burn out. And even though we're on a break right now there's a lot to still be done in the background. It's important to balance all the energy we put out there with nurturing ourselves because obviously we want to be in top form.

I think one of the big issues with us running this project is that we are available all the time, 24/7. So it's actually really full-on for those seven weeks because we're not only there doing the project, but we are seen as kind of the leaders. So I think that taking care of your own mental health and your own exhaustion has been quite a challenge that maybe we weren't expecting.

Suzy

Very true. Yeah, the vision.

David

Yeah, that's why we are moving into hiring facilitators. It's like, "What pieces can we give away?" And that's going to be the piece. And we've had some great conversations that I think could really carry our vision forward. We've also got some really supportive parents; they have amazing backgrounds. And that actually came from the parents saying, "We want to be used for things."

So we've actually established kind of like a PTA, like a parent-teacher association thing, where we have Natalie and I and then three parents, and we will meet once a week for an hour. And it's just the idea of: they can kind of bring things to us and they can be the touchpoint for the community. They can arrange the coffee meetings and they can be the first point of call when people are having issues, so it's not coming straight back to us. But then every week we can touch base and we can talk about it. So it's a really great idea that was actually shared with us by one of the parents. I've used PTA before in school settings. And so it just did seem like a really cool idea to draw on people's strengths.

Suzy

But that also sounds like a win, which I'm happy to hear. Like bringing in more of the parents and it just makes it even a stronger community in that aspect. What are some other wins that you've seen?

David

I feel like when I'm not there during the day facilitating—aside from the morning part—but when I see the pictures and the videos of their day, it's just like jaw-dropping. Sometimes I cry. I just think to myself like, "Wow, what an opportunity."

Yeah, I always say to the children, "If 14-year-old me saw these videos while I sat in my geography lesson in school, I would be like, 'What? Take me to this place!'" I'd say a big win—a big win that I see—is my 10-year-old daughter. And I just watch her during the day and I try not to have favorites, but obviously I observe her and I just see how she just loves every second of every day and just integrates and just gets involved and makes friends.

We're a vertical learning group but she's happy to chat to the older kids and they're happy to chat with the younger kids and just, you know, seeing it as a parent is a huge win because this is really what this is all about—wanting to produce something that we think is what education should look like for our children and then seeing our daughter just absolutely thrive. And it's so nice to see as a parent but also as the facilitator to see that enjoyment that the children have.

Suzy

Yeah, that's so great. I know that these locations, especially Southeast Asia and the Bali area can be—they're known to be a little more affordable, which I think helps when families are slow and long-term traveling that they can stretch the dollar or their pound or their Canadian dollar or wherever they're coming from. What has been the maybe financial picture of some of the families?

David

We have a big mix of families. So we have families that have built businesses and sold them and are able to stay in very nice places and don't need to worry too much. And we've got families that have really gathered every penny they can get to come and do this activity and do this trip. So there's a huge mixture, I think, of people that we have brought in. Most people work remotely, I think, now, so they all have jobs and they work during the day. It's one of the reasons they're with us because they know that we will have the children for that period of time so they can have meetings, etc.

I think like at the same time what David and I do when it comes to organizing for the activities and the facilitators, I always ask what do people want as a price and we pay it. Like we don't try to scrimp and negotiate with local facilitators and we pay them what the price is they're asking and it's fair because we want to be positive on the community. We want to have a positive impact and we don't want to undercut people and that is important to us when we are bringing in terms of like financial contribution to the area.

We tried to pick places that were slightly off-season going into it. So we knew that the prices would be a little bit lower. We then had the challenges of the weather. But as we always say to the families, we're not on holiday. If it rains, we're still going out. We're not here just to sunbathe, but it does mean that the prices are, especially for Koh Lanta and Lombok, were a bit lower and you could negotiate a bit more and there's a bit more availability.

Suzy

I'm sure they're very appreciative; these communities do rely on tourism, but that is seasonal. So if we can spread that out a little bit, I think that also helps.

David

It's a nice feeling to be able to support them.

Suzy

I like always wrapping up with a couple of lightning round questions. Then at the very end, I'll make sure you can link all the resources so people can find out more about Harmony Alternative and the opportunities that are coming up. Let's start with the best travel advice that you've ever received.

David

Pace is a good one. Like we did that faster travel recently in between terms and we found it quite tiring. We saw a lot and it was wonderful but in the end we were looking forward to the term starting in Lombok because we had done quite a bit. So it's nice—this time we're just staying in one place for a while. I think that yeah, slower is better. That's some travel advice.

One of my old employees taught me about how to get a good seat on an airplane, which I tried last year. And did it work? It worked, yeah. You book your seat and then he said an hour before you board, you go back in, cancel your seat, and then it opens up all the seats that normally you have to pay for, for free. And I did it and I was able to book myself a seat on an empty row. So that was a really good piece of travel advice. I went in to cancel my seat and then it opened up all the other seats available and then you could choose your row and know that no one else is going to check in. And then I had a whole row to myself. It was awesome.

Suzy

Genius. So one hour before takeoff, try to see what else is available. Yeah, genius. Good tip there. I like it. Where have you had the best or the worst food?

David

Canada was the worst food. It's not like a foodies' paradise for us anyway. I don't usually tend to eat meat so I found it quite meat-heavy there, I guess. I love Thai food and we lived in Thailand and met in Thailand and our kids love Thai food so I think actually we were so excited to take our children to Thailand after having talked about it so much and they knew our backstory and had never been there. We eat Thai food all the time, we cook Thai food all the time and the kids were so excited to be there.

Suzy

That's such a good food country for sure. What about some advice for families starting out?

David

I think it's so overwhelming when you're starting out. Just sell the stuff. I think that really bogs people down. What do we do with all this stuff? And I would just say to them that once you've sold it or given it away or donated it, you don't remember it all. It fades into the background. And that, yeah, you can overcome the stuff.

We were very reluctant to bring Kindles because we love books. We've, like said at the beginning, we've shipped books all over the place. And this time we were very light and we bought two Kindles and we were like, "We're not going to read these," but actually I've adjusted. And I'm okay with my Kindle now. But I continue to scoop up books wherever I see them. You do. But at least we're not shipping them. I push them in my suitcase just because they're books.

Suzy

Yes, it's good to have the balance. I just told my son last night because Kindle told me he got it for Christmas. He's eight, almost nine. And I was like, "You've read 35 books this year," because he is like obsessed now that he has this Kindle. So I'm like, OK, this has been interesting because I didn't realize it would go that much because he really did like physical books too. So there's this little part of me that's sad that he's not, like, touching as many books, but also I love that it's opened up a new world. So it's like, I can see that both things can be true with a Kindle, right?

David

I'm understanding with our daughter, she comes and gets my Kindle and I leave it in her room and then when my other daughter goes to sleep she sits and reads from the Kindle and it's dark so she can do it, whereas before she wouldn't have turned the light on to read. So, you know, they're all those... wins!

Suzy

Yeah, that's so cool. Well, this is great. Where can people learn more about Harmony Alternative and the opportunities coming up—let's see, this upcoming school year in South America and Southeast Asia? Where can they learn more about that?

David

So you can see the website, so it's harmonyalternatives.com and we have an Instagram page, a Facebook page and a very mediocre YouTube channel. I think it's really great to be able to go on our Instagram and click on some of the videos because that really shows what we're doing, what we're all about. It just gives the vibes in general of what a day looks like. And David does all of our videos and I think they're really great.

And on our website, you can make an appointment to meet with us, which I think actually is the best thing to do in the end because then you get to chat a bit more about how it might work for people. We're very open and very honest, and we really want people to ask lots of questions to us and make sure that this is the right project. And we have so much knowledge on international schools and worldschool hubs that we're quite happy to share our knowledge and say, "Actually, I think maybe you'd like this thing that we've heard about as well."

I think it's really important to have those discussions and make the right choice and make sure that you go with your heart to what is the right thing. And the right thing for your learner, for your child. It's really important for us that this is not just the parents who want it, that the kids are really excited and that it speaks to their heart.

Suzy

That's very true. Awesome. I'll make sure to link all that so people can get ahold of you and learn more about Harmony Alternative in the upcoming programs. And this has been so great to get to know you guys a little more. And I can't wait to share this. Thank you so much.