Suzy

Michelle from Traveling Village shares how her family turned the digital nomad journey into a global community for worldschooling families. From navigating unschooling and language learning on the road to co-living in Asia, launching campervan caravans, and building sustainable roots through the ReVillage project, Michelle shares what it takes to balance remote work, child-led education, and slow travel. Don't miss her best tips for traveling families at the end.

Welcome to the Wander World School Podcast. I'm Suzy, travel-loving money nerd, mom of two, and our family lives between Spain, Colorado, and soon Japan. On this show, we discuss the stories, logistics, and finances of traveling families and the many ways to learn along the way. Today, we get to know Michelle Rødgaard-Jessen. Happy to have you on the show. Please tell me more about you and your family and where you're calling in from today.

Michelle

I'm Michelle and my husband is Nikolaj Östrup, and we have two kids: Kai, who is almost eight years old, and Iris is four. And we are currently in Busan in South Korea. We're doing like the third trip with the Traveling Village.

Suzy

And I'm really excited to learn more about Traveling Village and how it works and the travel opportunities for you, your family, and other families to be part of that. But before we jump into more about Traveling Village, I always like to take it back to where your love for travel started.

Michelle

My love for traveling definitely came from my childhood. My mom is from Taiwan, but grew up in Brazil. So we would always visit family in Brazil. My dad also had a period where he was stationed in China. In general, they had a very global friend group.

And then when I was studying my master's, I was doing one year in Beijing, and I dragged my now-husband there as well. And this was his first experience of living abroad, and it was definitely not the most livable place, though we really loved it. But it also comes with some challenges. But I think after that, he was also really keen on traveling more and exploring more and trying to live in different places.

Suzy

And then when you started your family, were there some travel opportunities in there too when they were young or before you guys launched Traveling Village?

Michelle

Before we had kids, we were like digital nomads for four years. We were always working remotely with our own companies. Then we decided to have like a base in Copenhagen in Denmark, where we're also from, and travel for shorter periods or longer periods from there. That's when we had kids.

And then we started traveling with both kids. But we found out we were a bit lonely on our own. Even though we tried to stay in the same place, it took a lot of time and energy to build new relationships. And then we had to stay there so we couldn't explore other places.

So that's when this idea of creating a traveling village resurfaced. It was actually an idea we had before we even had kids, because we were already thinking of homeschooling and worldschooling at that point, but of course we didn't know much about having kids. But after traveling for six months, just us and the kids, we were like, okay, it's time to build that dream with Traveling Village and actually bring all the social connections and travel together.

Suzy

In general, what has been your approach for education and languages for your family?

Michelle

So for education, I think our approach has been very much unschooling-like. But I think now we're starting to become a bit more structured, so maybe just homeschooling. My son is growing a bit older and he's shown interest in some things. I want to guide him a bit more.

And regarding languages, we all speak Danish, and the kids are learning English, especially in Traveling Village. It's a natural way to learn. Languages is really one of my big passions. I grew up with a mom who speaks eight languages. It definitely comes from her. I speak Danish, English, Spanish, some Portuguese, a bit of German, and I'm learning Mandarin, so I'm trying to keep up with my mom. But it is something I really enjoy when I travel myself, so I also try to pass on that passion for languages to my kids. That's the thing with like unschooling: you have to catch the interest of the child. And my son is really like into it now, but my daughter not so much.

Suzy

Sometimes it takes time to develop those interests. But I'm really curious, you said with your mom, because I'm fascinated with languages: how did she acquire eight languages?

Michelle

She grew up with Taiwanese parents, but growing up in Brazil, she was already bilingual as a child because she was speaking Portuguese in school and to her siblings, but Mandarin with her parents. Then she really wanted to work in the hotel industry, so she had to learn English.

And then she wanted to come to Denmark and Germany, so she was learning those two languages in Brazil. I remember she told me she was learning from this old lady in Brazil who taught her Danish. Not perfectly, of course, but enough so she could come and work as an au pair in Denmark. And that's when she met my dad, and she never made it to Germany.

It gave her a lot of possibilities. Languages was a key to more options for her. And also, she's just so interested in it. If she sees a German person, she will speak to the person in German; if she meets an Italian person, she will speak in Italian—even though it would probably be easier in English or another language sometimes that she's more confident in. But she will—I think that's why she's so good at it—because she will just insist, even when it's complicated. And she has like a very global group of friends.

Suzy

I can see how persistence is a big piece of it. And it's very easy to feel nervous, especially as an adult learner. I get really nervous talking with other adults that I know in Spain. But then if I'm in a classroom setting or I'm talking to a total stranger, I'm less nervous. So I just know that you need to just do it sometimes. That's key: just practice, practice, practice.

Michelle

Exactly.

Suzy

You've shared that you've taken more of an unschooling approach, switching a little more to some structure with your almost eight and your four-year-old. I'm curious what that has looked like for you. I think it's true that there's a lot of evolution in educating our kids as they grow up and as their needs change. Everyone takes a different approach. But I'm curious what's been working for you all, and what does unschooling look like for you all? What is a typical day in that aspect? And then what does it mean to incorporate some more structure?

Michelle

It has been quite easy with our son because he was naturally interested in very school-ish stuff. He taught himself to read, and now he's very interested in music and learning a lot of English through that. Also, he likes math. So I think I've been a bit lucky, so it's not just me teaching him. What unschooling has looked like for us is mostly: okay, he's interested in this. Very early on, he would show interest in letters and words, and we would just guide him and help him, and then just encourage him to continue diving into this topic. It has very much been about following his interests.

And now I want to be a bit more structured—for instance, with his English. I can see he's learning a lot by himself through music and being in Traveling Village around all these other kids, a lot of whom speak English. But I think I could help him a bit more, and that's where this more structured approach comes in.

Suzy

It's great when a child shows interest in things and we want to help guide them through that. And I've maybe struggled a little bit because I'm like, I like what my kids are interested in when it's stuff that I'm interested in too, but it's a little harder when it's different. So that part has been interesting, to see how to support their interests while also guiding it in some ways.

The language piece I think is great for English language learners to be part of many of these hubs that are somewhat more English-centric. They're going to naturally have that opportunity. And we've almost had to take the opposite, where we're trying to immerse ourselves into Spanish and German communities so that our kids can pick up the languages. So I actually think for people who want English exposure for their kids, there's also a lot of opportunities in worldschooling.

Michelle

I can really see, like, the native English-speaking families in our group, they're like a bit jealous of the rest of us because they're like, "Your kids are learning English! My kids are not learning any language right now." So they really want that part too. So I can really understand how you feel.

Suzy

You've shared that you've been working remotely with your own businesses for a while. Fill me in a little bit more on how you're funding your travels and how did that start, and what that's looked like to balance work, travel, and raising children.

Michelle

We've always been working while traveling. I used to run an online marketing agency for many years. My husband has also been doing consulting. Then we've been doing retreats for entrepreneurs. And now we're doing Traveling Village. And yeah, we've just been doing a lot of different projects.

We had the advantage of being able to work remotely even before we had kids. So I didn't even realize how much that would mean when we had kids, but I feel very lucky that we have been able to do this throughout the time.

But of course, it is like you said: how do you balance working and traveling? And that is sometimes really tough, especially when you are with a group and there is so much FOMO, and you want to do all the things, but you also have to squeeze in work. So that is sometimes stressful. But at the same time, I also really enjoy working and creating. I feel really lucky to be able to do both, and it's also what makes it sustainable for us in the long run to keep living like this. So, no complaints.

Suzy

I think the ability to work remotely wherever it works for us is the most amazing key to being able to travel longer and slower. You're forced to slow down a little bit when you are building work into that. I feel very lucky that we get to explore the world while still maintaining some routines and some habits around work and structure, but also some freedom that comes with that. I think it's a great way to balance it all. But you're right, it's not always easy.

I really want to get into more about Traveling Village, how it got started. You're wrapping up your third village right now, but TV 4 and 5 are in the works. So I'd love to take it back, though, to what the first Traveling Village looked like and how that's evolved, and just anything you can share with us about Traveling Village.

Michelle

So I already said a little bit about how the idea came even before we had kids. And then we were traveling alone and we were like: okay, if a dream keeps knocking on your door, I have a saying that you have to answer and just try it out. And that's how it really felt with doing Traveling Village. But we were unsure who would be crazy enough to join this random family on the internet for a four-month-long journey through three countries.

So we started by making this simple landing page and we were like, "We're looking for a few families to help us build this and do this." For the first Traveling Village, there were four founding families: an American family, an Indian family, and another Danish family that joined us to help create the first trip.

We had to figure out: where are we going? How do we do it? We decided on having communal funds, and how do we make decisions? How many families, how are we structuring this, and what's the plan? How do we find families and all of that?

That was how it started, and so many families signed up. We had more applicants than we had spots, because we wanted 20 families. We thought that was a good village size. We wanted to create it as more low-pressure by having more families, and also then you're sure you will find someone to bond with. You don't have to be besties with everyone, but you will find someone in that group.

So yeah, that was really amazing that it actually worked and people were crazy enough to sign up. And yeah, the first one was a non-profit trip. They paid into this communal fund, so we had some money to create amazing experiences like events, parties, communal meals, go to museums, and do a lot of things together. So yeah, that was how it started.

Suzy

And so the first one was Vietnam, Thailand, and Japan. Now you've done Vietnam, Taiwan, and South Korea. And those are where people are staying in their own chosen accommodations that they're finding on their own, or what do the accommodations look like?

Michelle

On the first Traveling Village, some people randomly found some hotels and places that could work for co-living as well. There was room for more families, and it worked so well doing the co-living. On this trip, a lot of the families are actually living together. So here in South Korea, we have our own little apartment, but it's in the same building as three other families. And then we have like one big shared flat on the top and a rooftop that we are sharing—all of us. So we have this co-living, and 200 meters from us, eight families are living together in another co-living. We're really prioritizing being in walking distance.

Suzy

And that is different from Village 2, which was in campervans. And then the upcoming Village 5 will also be in campervans. What has the difference been between when you are staying in accommodations—a little bit more of the co-living—versus, I assume, most people having their own campervan, but then you are really close to each other typically if you're in the same location? What has the difference been like, and do you have a preference?

Michelle

I really love the campervans because I feel more connected to the whole group when we're in the campervans, because we're all together. When we're doing the Asia trips and we're staying in different co-livings, there will be some people that you don't get to live with. But you're always closer with the people that you have lived with because you've seen more sides of people, and you're cooking together, you're eating and having meals together more often. I actually prefer the campervans, but it's easier to explore more with this other kind of traveling. So we have more local immersion on these Asia trips—the bigger trips, definitely. So there are pros and cons to both of them.

Suzy

And what does a typical day look like? I recognize with 20 different families, they're all probably going to choose different things, but maybe for your family or just what you've seen in general, how do families plan for a typical day?

Michelle

For this Traveling Village, we decided to have what we call the Nest, which is our communal space where we meet four times a week for four hours. And we have hired two instructors—we call them scouts—and we're making activities for the kids.

Families are doing homeschooling every morning, where they do math or other things. Also, some kids go to school back home but are having a sabbatical now, but still need to keep up with some schoolwork that they're doing. So it's very different situations, also depending on the age.

A lot of the days, we just meet up at this Nest, which is a very casual hangout place. Here in Busan, it's twice a week on the beach. So it's a lot of playing at the beach and sometimes picnics. We also do a lot of soccer. We rented this indoor, amazing soccer place where the kids can go wild and play, do a lot of sports, and make different things.

We have a shared calendar, and if you saw the village calendar, it's packed! So it's really about prioritizing and finding your own rhythm for your family. For some families, one partner is working, so you won't see that person during the day, but you'll see the other person around with the kids coming to the Nest.

The key is really to find your own balance and not get carried away because you want to do all the things. I'm definitely not mastering that so well yet, but I'm really trying! Today I didn't go to the Nest. I had a quiet day with my son, but my husband and daughter went there, played soccer, and had lunch with the group.

Suzy

I think when people hear about families traveling together for an extended period of time, they might wonder: well, how do we manage potential conflicts? How do we manage and avoid drama? I mean, I guess we can't avoid conflict, because we're all human and we all have opinions and thoughts. And actually, managing conflict and differing opinions I think is a really important skill.

How is conflict managed? How are community activities decided? Is that all managed between the parents and the kids? Because that's a lot of people with a lot of different opinions.

Michelle

Like you say, conflicts are also how we grow. And I think you can't avoid having conflicts when you're living so closely together for more than four months across different cultures and personalities. We definitely do have conflicts, but not anything serious.

I think it was so interesting on TV 1 to see how the group got better and better at handling conflicts. I think that was very beautiful, to see the group grow together. Because the first time there was a conflict—I think it was something related to communal funds. That's often the cause, like: "Is this appropriate to use communal funds for?" It doesn't have to be a big conflict, but just something that we need to discuss.

So the first time we had a conflict like that, it was handled terribly! When people got sad, we had to have an extra meeting and talk it all through. But then we decided on some more rules: okay, how do we do it next time? The next time when it happened, I could see people following those rules, and actually, it was handled a lot better.

Suzy

Yeah. I do like the idea of a village where people have to work together, work through conflict, and help each other out, but still there's some space for you to live your own life. I think that's a great way to have some intentionality around it. Next year will bring both the campervan through Portugal and Spain and then the village again in Southeast Asia.

What have you learned with each TV as you've been designing future ones? What are some of the lessons learned that you've incorporated in future plans?

Michelle

So I think we learned something each time. The importance of walkability—like being closer to each other—because it means so much logistically. And we also became a lot better at finding good lodging that would suit families.

I think there are always some things. Now we're testing out the Nest and having some scouts to create activities, and just figuring out: how are we doing this, and does it work? Should it be four days, should it be less, should it be more? And how are people using it? Because sometimes your idea can be something, but people are using it in a different way.

For instance, with the Nest here, we thought that people would not come every day, but most people are actually coming every time, which was surprising to us. So that means a lot of the time we're actually all together, which is a big group. Whereas on TV 1, they were more like smaller groups because you had to come up with an activity to meet up since you didn't have the casual hangout space.

I also wanted to add to the money question you had: one way we try to avoid conflicts—which I can see has worked since the first one—is that this time we allocated budget to each work group. That makes it a lot easier, because on TV 1 it was just one big pot of money and then we had to decide on almost each thing, whereas here now it's up to the work groups. So we have a kids' activity work group, we have events, communal meals, finance, and different ones—and the Nest, of course, to find spaces and pay for those.

So sometimes the kids' activity group will decide, "Okay, the kids want to try this activity. We are funding it"—like if they did dance classes in Taiwan, for instance. And I think that made it a lot easier this time.

Suzy

I think the progression of this is ReVillage. I was wondering if you could share a little bit more about ReVillage. That launched from your experiences with Traveling Village, but I'd love if you could share a little more about what ReVillage is and what the plans are, as much as you can share about that.

Michelle

ReVillage is like another dream we're working on, and that is more about a whole village—a big group of families moving to the same village, possibly in Southern Europe, in a declining village that wants new people to come.

And yes, it is a dream of ours to live especially in a mountain village. We live in Denmark normally. We have no mountains at all. So that is like a big dream of ours, because we love mountains and we would love to live in different ways in different chapters of our lives. So this is one dream we have: making ReVillage, finding a whole group to move with us, and working with the village where we're going.

So the first step in that—because that's a very big project and we are not at all sure if we can do that and if it will ever happen; of course, that's what we're working towards, but you never know, it's huge—so the first step was that we made this pop-up village in France, just outside of Paris. We're working with a French guy, Noé, who used to restore old houses and also works a lot with villages and attracting people. So we're making a pop-up to gather people who are interested and have the same vision, and hopefully to make a prototype of a more permanent village and how to approach this gigantic project that we have taken on.

Because we want the roots and stability, but we also want the wings. Traveling Village and ReVillage are complementing each other very well, and that's why they go together in some ways. We're learning so much through Traveling Village and doing that, that we are applying in our approach to ReVillage.

Suzy

Well, it's an amazing concept because I love the idea of getting out of the top tourist sites and having more nature-based living and being in a community—like you said—that wants people to be moving to their community. And often there's fewer families, so if a bunch of families move there, that is going to provide some of that kid infrastructure. I think it's an amazing concept and something that could be really well received in the right community, and then also by people who love to travel but also want to be stable in one area. It seems like a win-win in a lot of different ways.

I'm excited to see where you all take ReVillage, and we'll have to maybe update in a while once you have some more updates on ReVillage to see where things are at.

Michelle

Yeah, happy you can see the vision!

Suzy

I would love to talk a little bit more about the challenges and the wins for you. This could mean putting on an amazing opportunity like Traveling Village, but also you are a traveling family part of the village. What are some of the challenges of long-term travel, and then also we'll talk about the positive parts?

Michelle

Yeah, so the challenges with long-term travel for me and for us is definitely keeping up some routines, and also very practical things. I want my kids to be helping out in the family, but every time you come to a new place, it's: okay, where is the trash can and where are all the things, how do they help? And then I have to guide them again and again and again. It's just a very practical thing where I'm like: okay, this is easier at home because they know how to help out.

But also, it is challenging being away from your own home, in your things, living out of a suitcase. And it's not always perfect. Sometimes you really miss your family or your friends or the food from home—things especially for the kids that they really love at home that they can't do here.

And also, sometimes you end up in a place where you don't like it—it's not really your thing. Not that it's not good, but it's just not your place. And all places have pros and cons. Yeah, I know it looks really perfect on Instagram, and you can always make things look beautiful. That's my experience: I can always find something beautiful and put that on Instagram. You just have to remember that sometimes, on the very beautiful beach, right next to it there's a big pile of trash that you don't see in the photos.

It's also harder sometimes to talk about the bad stuff online because maybe if your kids are having a hard time, if they're homesick or missing something specific, or having a hard time adjusting to a new place and they haven't found their go-tos and stuff, it's not something you just share on Instagram for everyone to know. So yeah, you don't get the full picture on Instagram for sure.

Suzy

Very true. What have you found to be positive aspects of being a traveling family?

Michelle

I love arriving in a new place and being like: okay, how do we do things here? Figuring that out. Sometimes that's so annoying as well, and sometimes it takes a lot of effort, but it's also what is so nice about traveling—exploring new places, figuring out: how do I say hello and thank you in this language?

For instance, we're in South Korea: you bow a lot, and so you have to say thank you and take the credit card back with both hands. Just some things that take some getting used to. For me, it's an important element to be aware of the culture I'm in and make sure I'm respectful. And also, they don't appreciate noise a lot in this country, which is sometimes hard with two noisy kids!

But yeah, exploring is what I really love, listening to the languages. I think it keeps me sharp, if that's the right word, to have to adjust to new environments. Yeah, I just love to have some of that that I can't have at home.

Suzy

Let's wrap up with the lightning round. You can only live in or visit three countries. What are they?

Michelle

I would have to say Denmark, because that's where all of our family is. And I think for me also Taiwan—that is where my mom is from and where I have my roots, so that's also a very special place to me. And for the last country, I think it would be Spain. That's probably the country I've spent the most time in and in so many different parts. And I just love everything about it: the culture, the language, nature, the cities. I feel like that country has everything.

Suzy

That's a great mix of countries. What is the best or worst food you've ever tried?

Michelle

The best food is definitely dumplings. I love dumplings. Probably because my granddad used to make them for me when I was a child, and apparently I must be an emotional eater or something, because I love dumplings!

Suzy

What is one item that you cannot travel without?

Michelle

It's my notebook. I love journaling and writing, and I need it for my soul.

Suzy

If you could teleport to one place right now, where would it be?

Michelle

I really wanted to teleport myself to Denmark like a month ago when my granddad was turning 103 years old, and I was so sad not to be there. So that was one of those moments where you're like, "I should have been home."

Suzy

It's hard to miss those birthdays and those special family moments. And that's really special—your grandpa's 103, that's amazing! What's one piece of advice to a family just starting out?

Michelle

I would say travel slow. It will take a while to get used to traveling and getting into routines, and for all the family members to find a rhythm and figure out how they thrive and what they like when traveling.

I think a lot of families think that it'll just be paradise from day one. But then also, a lot of families are spending a lot more time together on the road, which also means more conflicts and a lot of more of everything. Also more beautiful moments, of course, but also more conflicts. And I think that can be overwhelming in the beginning until you find a new flow and rhythm for your family.

Suzy

And if people want to connect with you more and learn more about Traveling Village, where can they find out more information?

Michelle

You can find us on Instagram as @travelingvillage. We have the website, travelingvillage.com, and revillage.com as well if you are interested in ReVillage. Yeah, and you can sign up for our newsletters.

Suzy

I'll make sure to link all that in the show notes. And you have the Traveling Village podcast as well, so people can learn more about what life is like in a traveling village in that regard.

And this has been great to learn more about you and your family and Traveling Village. Thank you so much.

Michelle

Yeah, thanks for having me!