Suzy: What happens when a family trades the farm for full-time travel and packs two unicycles in their luggage? Today I'm chatting with Irene, host of The World Schooling Space podcast and author of Chasing the Red Dot. Irene details their slow travel across nearly 40 countries, the candid realities of traveling villages and camper van life, navigating the awkward cultural dynamics in Egypt, and the exact monthly budget that makes it all possible.

Stay to the end for her tips on navigating difficult communication situations while traveling closely with other families.

Welcome to the Wander World School Podcast. I'm Suzy, a travel-loving money nerd, mom of two, and our family lives between Spain, Colorado, and soon Japan. On this show, we discuss the stories, logistics, and finances of traveling families and the many ways to learn along the way. Today we get to know Irene. Thank you for coming on the show. I'm excited to hear more about you, your family, and your podcast. So why don't you give us a brief introduction on who you are, who your family is, and where you're calling in from today.

Irene: Sure thing. Hi Suzy. Thank you for having me. My name is Irene and I'm calling from Kyoto, Japan. I have a husband named Andy and a child named Ani, who is eleven years old. I also have a podcast. So it's fun to be interviewed for a podcast instead of being the interviewer. My podcast is called The World Schooling Space.

Suzy: We'll share a little bit more about your podcast so people can tune in at the end of the episode and find out where to listen along. You've been doing quite a few worldschooling opportunities. Want to give us a brief overview of the opportunities that you've partaken in recently?

Irene: We have participated in actually the very first Boundless cohort in Sintra, Portugal, several years ago. I know they've expanded since then, but it was kind of fun to say we were the very first cohort and enjoyed that experience. We've also participated in the Egyptian Adventures Worldschooling Hub in Luxor, Egypt for two months, and that was just last year. And we were a founding family co-organizing three traveling villages.

And now we are exploring ways to find community for our tween-aged child and travel at a slower pace.

Suzy: We love talking about slow travel on this podcast. So we'll dive into that more as well. Before we jump into more about family travel and your podcast, share with me where your love for travel started.

Irene: My husband Andy and I have a rich history of traveling internationally together for unicycling of all things. So the one-wheeled bicycle with just one wheel. We really treat it as a sport and we've actually been fortunate to do some international trips. My very first trip was to Norway when I was 18 for the Norwegian Unicycle Tour. So we had a one-meter-wide wheel or thirty-six-inch-wide wheel that we would train on for months ahead of time and then go for two- or three-week trips in the summer in a small group. So we went through Norway together, and then every other year we would organize, train, and participate in different unicycle tours through Europe for three weeks. We rode through the Swiss Alps one year, along the Mediterranean coast another. In the summer when there wasn't a tour, we would compete at international unicycle competitions called Unicon.

And that brought us to New Zealand, Denmark, Switzerland, and Japan.

Suzy: I love that there is an activity like unicycling, which I knew about, but I did not realize how much of a community, a travel culture, and even a competition took place for unicycling. So how does one even get started with unicycling?

Irene: In Minnesota there happens to be a very active unicycle club called the Twin Cities Unicycle Club. And when I was 11, I saw them riding in a parade through my hometown. And that just sparked my interest. So I started trying to ride my bike with no hands to see how that would feel. And then I joined a community ed class and was able to slowly pick up how to ride on my own and eventually joined the Twin Cities Unicycle Club, which is where I met my husband Andy.

And we fell in love, and actually we even continue to volunteer with the club when we're back in Minnesota. And so I really appreciate being able to go back and support the club.

Suzy: So you travel with a unicycle as well?

Irene: We do; we have two with us right now. I have one that's twenty-seven and a half inches wide. It's a mountain unicycle tire, so it's like a three-and-a-half-inch-wide tire with a disc brake so that you can ride downhill. I take it mainly to get around streets, but you can take it on mountain bike trails. And then my daughter Ani, she has a twenty-four-inch-wide unicycle wheel.

Suzy: And I love biking. I think it's the best way to get around. But I'll be honest, sometimes when you're traveling, you have to rent a bike, or it just seems a little more complicated to get a bike unless you're full-time traveling on a bike. But it seems like with a unicycle, you can take this in your suitcase. Am I correct?

Irene: Yeah, the bigger one I have a special case that my mom sewed for me and it's a bit awkward, but I take the pedals off and I take the seat off. So it really compacts down and it's quite light. So I often just go looking very friendly to the clerk when I'm checking in our luggage. I've learned how to say it's a wheel, I've deflated it, you know, this is what it is, and I've gotten by so far without having to pay extra for it.

And then we have a large suitcase that we fit the other unicycle in.

Suzy: This is a great idea for someone that wants to bike and travel. But I'm guessing there's some skill to it, learning the balance. Like if someone is starting from level zero, about how long would it take them before they feel comfortable unicycling?

Irene: Yes, good question. We've taught hundreds of people over the years, and usually you learn on a wheel that's about twenty inches in diameter, so a smaller wheel. And the seat height, when you're standing flat on the ground with a unicycle in front of you, the top of the seat should be just below your belly button. So it's pretty high, but that allows your legs to move freely and you don't hurt your knees. It takes on average between ten and twenty hours to learn how to ride on your own for a distance, like say around a track.

So it's good if you can have somebody to support you on one or both sides or find like a wall to hold onto as you start to learn. And then I recommend trying a little bit every day, maybe ten or twenty minutes. If you have support, you can go for an hour each day. And then over time you will eventually learn how to ride.

Suzy: This sounds like a wonderful goal.

Let's talk about family travel as well. You shared that you have done quite a few cohorts, and you've been traveling for quite a while. Fill me in on what slow travel has looked like for your family since you launched back in 2019.

Irene: My husband Andy keeps stats on our travels and actually just this evening over dinner, I thought for some reason that Ani had only been to nineteen countries, but he said no, she has visited thirty-nine different countries so far. I was like, "Thirty-nine, are you sure?" He said yes. And so I updated my list, knowing I'd be talking to you today.

When people hear that, they're like, "Well, what's your favorite place?" And honestly, I don't know that I have a favorite, but I can say that the place we've spent the longest time was actually in Japan. And we just so happen to be there right now. And then after that, I think Canada is the second place that we've spent a lot of time. And then after this we plan to go to Austria for the unicycle competition and then to Ireland to do some pet sitting and visit some friends that we met from past traveling villages. We're still kind of figuring out what we'll be doing next winter, but right now it's looking like trying to find someplace to go skiing with a group of families that we know. So we'll still have community while we try to ski for a few months, and then we'll figure it out after that.

Suzy: And how did travel get started? Was this something that you knew you and your family wanted to do full time for a long time? Or did you just end up hitting the road and then it's continued? Fill me in a little more on that transition to travel.

Irene: We used to be organic fruit and vegetable farmers in Minnesota and we did that for about nine years. In the middle of those nine years we welcomed our child Ani to the farm, which was amazing. But my husband worked full-time remotely doing IT work. We had a farm that was growing with perennial fruit trees and vegetables, and then we had a young child.

And so we just were burning the candle at both ends. And at some point we decided, we don't have to do this anymore. We know we like to travel. Like, what if we sold the farm? And I mean, any good farmer at some point in the season will think about selling the farm because it's overwhelming and there's so much going on. But finally in the fall of 2018, we returned from a trip to Europe. We walked the fields and we looked at each other and said, "We don't have to do this anymore. We could sell the farm." And it actually stuck. So we found a buyer and then in the spring of 2019 we were able to start our travels.

Suzy: And I imagine that is a big change because farming can require a lot of in-person work, like you said, day and night. But it's opened up a world of opportunities for you to travel with Boundless and with traveling villages.

I did chat with Michelle recently. And I'd love to hear the perspective from a participant in the traveling villages, because you've done quite a few of them.

Irene: We first learned about it actually from a unicycle connection who knew Nikolai and Michelle, and so he put us in touch with them. My husband Andy was more excited than I was in the beginning. So he and two other families—there were four founding families for the first village—met for about a year leading up to that village, interviewed families, welcomed them on, and then we partook in that village together. And that really sold me on the community because I realized how important it was to have friends and families to travel with, especially in this lifestyle where you can feel quite lonely when you're in a new city and it seems like everybody's going to school and doing the traditional thing for that culture. You really need to cultivate friendships.

And so then after taking a pause, we reconnected with them and decided, let's organize some more. So it was just the two families—our family and Nikolai and Michelle—and I took a much more active role for Traveling Village Two and Three. We organized the camper van trip last fall, and then Traveling Village Three through Asia. And now we've just decided to do our own thing. So we're no longer organizing with them, but they're continuing on doing their own ReVillage and continuing with the Traveling Village brand.

And what I really got out of it was realizing the importance of community and also just the ability to find like-minded families. So I'm super grateful we found some really lovely families that we're still traveling with. Right now we're co-living in an Airbnb house in Japan with a family we met on TV1. And we're planning future trips with them, and they know other traveling families.

What's different about our family and their family is that this is our lifestyle. We're not doing a short trip or a six-month trip; we're committed to doing this long term. So you kind of go at a different rhythm than people that might just be doing it for a few months or even four months. Those people are going to try to fit everything in that's possible. But if you're doing this all the time, you learn how to build in more downtime for yourself so you don't get exhausted.

You need to be able to recharge. So you might do something really big one day and take the next day or two off, and then something big the next day and take the next day or two off. Or maybe just plan one thing in the day so that you can keep doing one thing every day that week instead of trying to fit it all in.

Suzy: I love that way of balancing real life with travel—fitting in those fun things that you might do because you are only in this location for a while, but also fitting in just the normal life of going to the park, the restaurant, or the grocery store. And then with the traveling villages or travel in general, I'm curious about your thoughts on the differences between something like what you're doing right now, where you're in the Airbnb (whether it's also a traveling village or traveling on your own), compared to the camper van. The cool thing about the traveling village opportunities is they're a couple months long, so it's not necessarily full-time camper van life for years on end, but it gives you a couple months to be out a little more in nature. I'm just curious what the differences have been for you and your family between those two different traveling styles, and if there's one that you prefer more than others, or do you really like just incorporating all of those?

Irene: That's a good question. Actually, our child Ani was saying she really preferred the camper van traveling village because we were just so close together. Everyone was in the same place and it was so easy to go in and out from one to the next or meet up around the campfire when we were allowed to have campfires. And it was fifteen families, whereas the others had been around twenty. So it was nice to have kind of a smaller group and be more central. And I liked it too because I had access to a consistent kitchen and refrigerator, which is sometimes harder to find when you're traveling.

Suzy: How did you get your camper van for the European traveling villages? Was that one you owned, or did you rent it?

Irene: We rented it. We went through Indie Campers and we got it in Venice, Italy, and then returned it to Venice, Italy. And we learned a lot along the way. Some people found individuals to rent a camper from, some people purchased a camper, and some people had their own. It really kind of ran the gamut. One family tried to tent; now they've bought a caravan. They learned the tent wasn't necessarily the best choice, but it was one way of trying to get through.

Another family had a caravan pulled behind, and you really saw how nice that was because you could open it up and it was much more spacious inside.

Suzy: That's good to know that there are renting options, and it is a great way to combine a little bit more of nature. But then with the traveling villages, you also have that community aspect. I'm curious about your approach to education while traveling.

You've been on the road for a while, and your daughter is eleven now. What have schooling, learning, and languages looked like for your family?

Irene: I do speak French and I'm learning Spanish. When we traveled to South America, Ani picked up a little bit of Spanish, but it hasn't really stuck. But she definitely learns the basics of how to say hello, thank you, goodbye, and please wherever we are, because we're also modeling that and trying to know the basics and leaning on Google Translate when we can't understand the language.

Korean was actually quite challenging for me, but finally by the end I learned how to say hello and thank you. And our approach to education has been kind of evolving as we've learned more about ourselves and our child along the way. At first, we knew we always wanted to homeschool Ani from birth, so I knew that I'd be homeschooling. And in the beginning it looked a little bit more like school, where I was trying to have so many hours in the afternoons.

It's different for everyone, but oftentimes it was just super frustrating. And the more frustrated I would get, the more frustrated Ani would get. It was like, okay, let's just stop and go do something else for a while. And so what we have kind of evolved into these days is that we try to have some time to connect with Ani. We'll take turns, Andy and I. Andy has retired now and I'll mention that when we come to the financial piece. But it's been so nice now that he's retired because we can really take turns and divide up the schooling, or what we think in our minds should be schooling. The more I learn about life and child-led learning, the more I realize you're learning all the time, and really learning how to foster the love of learning and research is the most important thing.

So when Andy connects with Ani, he'll often talk about geography or social things or maybe bring up an interesting video he's seen recently. He talked to her about one of Max Fisher's videos talking about dating and why people aren't dating as much anymore. So they watched part of that together and talked about China and why the population of China has gone down. And then when I do our connection time, often we'll watch a Mark Rober video and talk a bit about science or something that interests us in that way. And that also will kind of bring us close together and get us more excited to approach math and reading.

I do try to follow a math program called RightStart Math. And interestingly, it's actually written by Andy's mother. So Ani's grandmother has her PhD in math education, has written this program, and runs this huge company. It's a really awesome program and it keeps us connected to the family as well.

And then I do follow Logic of English kind of off and on. In the traveling village, we focused a lot more on connection, and so we're kind of getting back into our rhythm now of finding that connection time because there's just been so much community and activity within the village life. But we're starting to find our way and get back into reading and all of that.

Suzy: Sounds like you've been able to ebb and flow a little bit based on your travel schedule and who you're with, and fit in self-directed learning. I love that you get some one-on-one time with that as well. And you mentioned that Andy has retired, which touches on a big part of full-time travel: how it is financially and logistically possible. So fill me in a little more on how you have achieved this ability to travel full-time and what that's looked like. And I will also add, I think it's great if both parents can have that time when it comes to the education piece. This links back to the financial and the logistical because of course it's possible to travel with one or both parents working, but I think it would be really nice to have both parents able to do the education and the travel. So fill me in on what that's looked like.

Irene: Certainly. In the beginning, probably the first four or five years of our travels, Andy worked remotely for a large food company in the US. That meant he worked about forty hours a week, and it was a bit stressful at times, especially trying to figure out time zones and making sure he had a reliable internet connection. In the beginning we didn't even fully understand hotspots, so he worked from a lot of funny coffee shops along the way.

Eventually we discovered libraries were really good because they had good Wi-Fi. But I remember after COVID hit, his company cracked down on international travel. So we explored more of the US. We went to Hawaii once they opened up, and we went up to Alaska in the summertime to enjoy the summer there. That was when there were no cruise ships coming in, so it was much quieter than usual, which was quite interesting.

For example, in Hawaii, I remember he'd wake up at 3:30 in the morning. He would be working on Central Standard Time, which meant he'd go to bed at 6:00 or 7:00 in the evening. And of course our child was much younger and wanted to read, and we'd often share a small space. It was very stressful at times to make sure he had all of the things he needed, and then he'd get done working and want to have some quiet time. Thankfully we've gotten through that. He's now 56; there is a bit of an age gap between us. Fortunately, he was able to take early retirement at age 55.

He's good about keeping track of data, and one thing that's really helped us a lot is budgeting. Because we have a good budget and have a general idea of how much we need to live and where our spending habits lie, we can pick and choose where we travel in the world, knowing the cost of living is different in each place. As I had mentioned earlier, we were in the Luxor hub in Egypt. There, for example, accommodation was $350 a month. And the food was much less expensive; I think we paid maybe four or five hundred dollars a month for food.

I just wrote a book, so I'm learning all about self-publishing. I've had some close family and friends purchase my book, which is super sweet, and it means the world to me when they actually read it and leave a review. It chronicles our travels from 2024 and has a lot of photos and my insights on the countries that we've gone to along the way. It's called...

Suzy: The book is called...

Irene: Chasing the Red Dot: Peregrinations Through 2024.

It's called that because when we first started out, we didn't allow Ani to use screens, but we had up on our GPS that red dot when you get to your location on Google Maps. So we'd show her, "Look, this is where we're going and we have this much farther to go." Laughingly, in the beginning we'd do eight- or ten-hour driving days, especially working around Andy's work schedule. So on the weekends we'd really hit it hard. Andy said at one point, "Gosh, if we ever write a book, we've got to call it Chasing the Red Dot." It's like just trying to get to where you're going, you know?

So I thought, yeah, let's call it Chasing the Red Dot. And my friend John told me peregrination is a fancy word for traveling slowly. So I used that in the title as well: traveling slowly through 2024. So Chasing the Red Dot: Peregrinations Through 2024.

Suzy: I love it. What a great backstory. Thank you for sharing. I'll make sure to link that in the show notes. But tell me a little more—well, you were about to keep going before I asked that, too.

Irene: Yeah, no problem. Because I appreciate that you had asked, in preparation for our conversation, to get a one-month snapshot of our costs.

Suzy: Yes.

Irene: And it is so helpful. I really appreciate you framing it that way, and I might actually do that in the future when I interview people for my podcast, because then you have the real numbers and it's helpful. Of course, it depends on your culture and your spending habits and a lot of different factors, but at least for us, coming from Minnesota in the United States, we've found that on average we spend about $1,800 per month on lodging, which equals about $65 a night. We spend about $1,600 per month on meals and groceries. That includes snacks, tea—we don't drink coffee—and also going out to eat at restaurants. So that's meals and groceries. And then about $400 a month on activities, and we figure about $800 per month on travel, which includes plane tickets and public transportation.

We've had pretty good luck with Airbnb, actually. We'll often try to reach out to the host before we book anything, and I'll ask them a simple question such as, "Do you think you could remove air fresheners before we arrive? Because I'm very sensitive to smells and it would ensure that we feel well during our stay." That's usually a very easy yes for them. And then if we're staying for a month and there's not already some kind of discount applied, I might even give a bit of our story and say, "We have a budget, we've been traveling for so long, and we have a daughter. Would you consider lowering your price or offering us a special offer?"

Most of the time when I've actually asked, people are willing to do something. So it is worth asking. It's a little uncomfortable because it's not something I grew up doing, but the more I do it, the more comfortable I get, and then we end up saving money. So it's worth mentioning that as well.

Suzy: You also get a sense of how they're going to respond to you and if they're supportive of those requests. That's really helpful. If you're staying somewhere for a while, you want to know that this is someone you could reach out to and bring up an issue with if there's something going on that needs to be addressed. It's not just two nights where you can easily leave if it's not the greatest experience.

Irene: I wanted to mention, too, about hosts and working. The family we travel with right now, the husband works full-time, and so we're always asking our hosts, "Is it possible to get a nice desk, or could you help us buy a desk so that this person can work remotely?" And we've always had good luck. They've actually brought a desk from their house for our friend to work from while we're here. Sometimes the internet can be a little bit sketchy, but nowadays it's super easy to buy a local SIM card, and that will ensure that you have very good internet access.

Suzy: Let's talk about some of the challenges and wins, because full-time travel is amazing and you've had some really cool opportunities. I am really excited to get to Egypt someday as well, and maybe the hub will be that entry point. But tell me a little more about anything you've experienced on your travels that has been a bit of a struggle, and then we'll also talk about the wins.

Irene: When thinking about a struggle, I do bring up Egypt. I think the hub is actually a great way to go because you have people there who can support you as you encounter such a diverse culture. But for me specifically, I realized after a few weeks there that it's actually part of their culture to try to entice Western women, because it's a way for them to make money. It's culturally accepted for men to have more than one wife. And so when you get an offer for tea in Egypt, it's actually kind of asking you on a date. You have to think twice before you say yes, because you might just think they're being so kind and it's just tea—what harm can that be? But actually, you're creating a connection. The longer I was there, the more I realized that. The longer you stay in a place, the more layers you understand.

It's so interesting to be on the side of being a woman and being sought after. My husband Andy was saying how he's been in cultures like Cartagena, Colombia, where women would seek after him because they'd offer prostitution. But I was feeling like I was being pursued because they were trying to get to know me. And so it was a bit of a struggle and a challenge. But being there was such an enriching experience because I learned so much about myself, Andy and I had a lot of conversations, and again, we felt safe because we had the hub there to rely on with really dedicated people. I also learned about how the hub is trying to help some of the local women not get married so early by giving them employment. So it was a very rich and deep learning experience.

I'll also say that anytime you live in community, another challenge is learning how to connect with yourself, really figure out your needs, and express that to those around you. Coming off of this past village and living in close proximity with eighty-some people, I had some struggles, but that is to be expected in any part of life.

Suzy: Absolutely. I think that is one reason people have hesitancy with a co-living situation or when families are really close: hesitancy around those group dynamics. There might be opportunities where someone needs to have difficult discussions or difficult conversations. As I've gotten older, I feel like there's so much value in doing the hard things, even if it's not always easy, and then modeling that for our children instead of avoiding those tough situations (which was my past way of coping—just wanting things to be happy and getting through it).

Curious if you could touch a little more on what skills you've picked up in traveling closely with families. And if someone was interested in traveling with families in this way, what is a skill that would really help them with communication?

Irene: After Traveling Village One, I really took a deep dive into learning about Nonviolent Communication. I found that it's really helped me a lot. Interestingly, not everybody I speak with likes it. And so that was a challenge too—learning that even though I find this works super well for me, somebody I try to explain it to might say, "No, that's not for me." So then you have to figure out what to do next, because I was hoping I could use this tool to help get along with everybody.

Ultimately, what I like about Nonviolent Communication is that it really helps you come back to what is true for you and speak from a place of your own experience instead of blaming others, as well as asking for things that can be accomplished in the now. I learned a lot of examples from listening to Marshall Rosenberg's podcasts. He even talks about praise and how praise can actually be a form of judgment—even if you're praising someone, you could easily turn around and say something negative about them. Really starting to observe your language has been helpful for me.

Also, just make sure you have ways of coming back to yourself. For me, that's meditation and a writing practice. These are all ways of tuning in to what is bothering you about the situation at hand, and then you can come to the person and try to have a constructive conversation about how you'd like it to go differently next time. Sometimes that person is not willing to listen, and that's okay too, because then you learn that maybe you don't foster that relationship anymore. I would recommend something like Nonviolent Communication or compassionate listening—anything that sounds like it might interest you—just to try to learn how you can express your needs better in community.

Suzy: I really need to dive into Nonviolent Communication with my kids so they don't always roughhouse! But let's also chat about the wins. What has worked well for you as a traveling family?

Irene: I've learned that we continue to change every month that we travel. A recent win for us was pet sitting; we had some amazing experiences in Australia. We met really incredible families and I've kept in touch with them. One of them even bought my book, because she had self-published a book about sailing around the world with her family. I thanked her for letting me read that, and then in return she bought my book, which was so sweet. And I would also say just finding community: having families to travel with and meet up with in different parts of the world has been a big win as well.

Suzy: What are some additional resources or anything that has helped inspire you that could also inspire other families before we jump into our lightning round?

Irene: In the beginning of our travels, I found several online Facebook groups helpful for finding other worldschooling families. Nowadays there seem to be even more, so I really encourage people to jump onto one or two Facebook worldschooling groups, perhaps in a specific region or simply one that has a lot of members, and just start reading.

I will also say budgeting has been a huge thing for us. We learned about it when we were farming through a course that supported beginning organic farmers. I don't have a direct link for the course, but it's called Holistic Financial Planning. The main idea is creating a budget spreadsheet with 10 or 12 areas of your life where you spend money, and then tracking each month how much you spend in each area. If you've never budgeted or this sounds overwhelming, there are apps where you can track where you spend your money. Keeping track of what you spend is the first step to creating a budget. Once you have tracked your spending for several months, you can forecast what you might spend in the upcoming year.

It has been a huge thing for us. In my personal budget, for example, I know if I have $200 left this month. Just today I went to the store looking for a new backpack. I knew I had $200 to work with. Next month I'll get another $300 in that account, and maybe I'll borrow from next month, but I know what I have to work with. To me it feels very empowering instead of spending the money and then having to have a conversation with Andy later about what I spent it on, because he just knows that comes from my budget—boom, done, moving on. It really puts you in control of your finances and your life. I recommend trying to find a way to get an understanding of where you spend your money.

Suzy: Absolutely. Money is a big part of it. With your background running your own farm business with its ups and downs, that probably prepared you well for a traveling life where expenses shift, and now you are balancing retirement and other projects. That might be an easier transition than someone coming from a consistent income who suddenly has to balance fluctuating travel costs. It seems like you were well prepared for the financial adjustments of traveling life.

Let's wrap up with a lightning round of quick, fun questions. What is your favorite travel-related movie, book, or story?

Irene: The first book that came to mind was The Priority List: A Teacher's Final Quest to Discover Life's Greatest Lessons by David Menasche, who was a high school English teacher. He wrote about his experience teaching students and then his battle with brain cancer. At the point when he could no longer teach, he decided to take a cross-country trip to visit former students, see how they had turned out, and see if he had made an impression on them. I listened to this audiobook while we were still farming, and it planted the seed in my mind of wanting to go and visit unicycle friends. It's a lovely book about how you make impressions on people, how you can reach out and visit them, and the importance of connection.

Suzy: What are one or two items you cannot travel without?

Irene: My Wüsthof chef's knife—because you never get good chef's knives in an Airbnb, they're always dull—and my unicycle.

Suzy: Absolutely, gotta bring that along. What is your favorite subject to worldschool with?

Irene: Culture and food.

Suzy: What is one piece of advice for a family just starting out?

Irene: Listen to the wishes of your children. If they want to have some time to rest, please give it to them. The happier they are while you travel, the better your whole family will feel. You can also take turns exploring places and then bring your child when they are ready. They may never be ready, but at least you were able to experience the place for yourself.

Suzy: Trading off is very important so parents can get what they need while remaining aware of what the kids need. This has been delightful. If people want to follow along with your podcast, your Substack, or your book, where can they find you?

Irene: My Substack is slowtravelirene.substack.com. That's where you can find my podcast, The World Schooling Space. I'm also on Facebook and Instagram. On Amazon, if you search for Chasing the Red Dot: Peregrinations Through 2024, or simply Chasing the Red Dot, my name will come up. It's available in various other places, but that's a great place to start.

Suzy: Thank you so much, Irene. I really appreciate the conversation, and I encourage everyone to go check out the podcast and your resources.

Irene: Thanks for having me.