Suzy: Welcome to the Wander Worldschool Podcast. I'm Suzy, a travel-loving money nerd, mom of two, and our family lives between Spain, Colorado, and Japan this fall. On this show, we discuss the stories, logistics, and finances of traveling families and the many ways to learn along the way. Today we get to know Leah Renee. Welcome to the show.

Tell me a little bit more about you and your family and where you're calling in from today.

Leah: I am calling in from Philadelphia, Go Birds, and I have three children. They are seven, ten, and thirteen, all girls, and we moved to Philadelphia in 2022 after a year of nomadic living across the UK and the US.

Suzy: And we're also going to talk about your career in comedy, which to me is very fascinating.

But before we jump into that and your family travels, I'd love to hear more about where your love for travel started.

Leah: I found after taking a values quiz—I mean, I suppose I already knew this—I crave novelty and variety. And growing up in the military, I think people assume that we moved a lot because that's usually the case, but because I was raised by a single dad, I don't think they moved him around as much.

We were primarily in San Diego and then the Washington, DC area. And I think the move from California to Virginia was difficult. I was almost thirteen when we moved. But then I went to school with a bunch of people that moved all the time.

And even if someone was a real butt munch, they would get stationed to Okinawa next year and you didn't have to deal with them. So you didn't have these long-standing rivalries, and I just kind of got used to being in a transient community, I suppose. So I don't know if that's because it started feeling normal to me or because it was always normal in my DNA.

Suzy: And I do appreciate that there are people who adjust well to a little bit more of a nomadic lifestyle and then some for whom maybe it's not a good fit, and maybe that means we're drawn to one lifestyle or the other.

Was that your experience? And do you think that has carried over to adulthood?

Leah: Yeah, I mean, I've always been a really chatty kid that made friends easily. So that was kind of already my personality. But the devastation of someone moving was not a part of any of our narratives.

I think it's a bit different because when you're moving into a new community that's military, they're already moving people. But probably, as you've found with slow travel, when you move into a new town, those people have been there for a long time and you're kind of the outsider. And so I do think it's more difficult when you're the outlier.

Another thing that we haven't brought up: I was raised Mormon. I have recently left it, but no hard feelings. But one of the things that you do as a Mormon is you serve a full-time mission and you can go anywhere in the world. So when I was twenty-one, I put in my paperwork to serve a volunteer mission for the church.

And all of my friends were getting sent to London, Lisbon, and Frankfurt. And I got sent to Barstow, California. So not everyone's favorite part of California, I will say. And I grew up in California, so it was kind of weird to get sent back to a place that I had just lived an hour away from.

Then I got married, and we were working to pay off student loans and to save up money. Eventually, we saved up enough money and paid off enough of our student loans that I felt confident, and we went to Croatia, which is where my husband got to go on his mission. Then once kids started coming, it's harder.

Then eventually we traveled to the UK.

Suzy: When did your career in comedy come into play? It sounds like more of a recent transition, but something that you have been interested in for a long time.

Leah: Definitely. Mormon women were encouraged to develop their skills and talents. And I remember listening to this talk and taking that very seriously. I made a list of things that I enjoyed or I thought I was naturally good at. And one of the things that came up was I've always liked making people laugh, but I never felt like the career of a stand-up comedian was compatible with motherhood, where in the Mormon church you're encouraged to have as many children as you think you can handle. But I thought, because the prophet of the Mormon church encouraged women to develop their skills, well, what if I just develop the skill of it, you know, and see where it goes, and not worry about going on the road or how it would actually look as a lifestyle thing? So I did my very first gig at a Mormon talent show for women. And obviously, they're a very warm crowd, very sweet. So then I started doing just little open mics.

So I did that a little bit until I got pregnant. And I still did open mics when I was pregnant, but eventually, my baby came, and I just wanted to snuggle and nest.

And it wasn't until January 2022 that I decided to do it full-time. At that point, my husband and I were ninety percent certain that we would not continue with Mormonism, and I no longer felt this pressure to devote my one hundred percent whole self to my kids—that I was allowed to have a dream of my own, and that it was important to raise my kids, but I think it's also important for you to have something for you as well. We decided to treat my comedy career like a business, like any other occupation. So we put money in what we call my "funny business" account and I treated it like a master's degree. So I would write every day and then I would go to class, which were open mics, and I would test out. Now this time we were living nomadically, so my intention was to test out comedy in each city that we lived in, because cities are different. Comedy in Seattle is very different than comedy in Pittsburgh—the kinds of things people laugh at, the kind of audience members. So we eventually settled on Philadelphia as our perfect city—perfectly imperfect—as a good place for me to get a lot of stage time. I go up to New York a lot. It's a great balance for a family.

And it is kind of weird to, you know, kiss your kids goodnight and stroke their hair and then go sit and listen to what you can imagine men in Philadelphia in their mid-twenties are talking about in the basement of a dive bar.

But I wanted to give a distinct voice in comedy and to represent women, mothers, and parents, and make jokes and tell stories from that perspective.

Suzy: I think there's a place in comedy for every perspective, just like in travel—that there's a place for everyone and their different interests. It's just about finding the people who want to hear you and your message. I'm curious if you've been able to find an audience that speaks to you in that same way.

Where do people find you and vice versa?

Leah: It's really interesting because with comedy, the audience is the editor. You have to get that feedback from the audience to find out if your premise is clear, if it's relatable, if it's funny.

The difficulty is the stage time that you get, specifically when you're starting out, is usually in dive bars at night, late at night during the weeknight. So who is at a bar on a Wednesday night at eleven o'clock? You know?

Suzy: Not other moms.

Leah: Not other moms. And so I worked really hard.

I was constantly testing out new stuff because I was trying to figure out if it would work. But it wasn't until I got booked for a series of shows with a group called Moms Unhinged. And I remember Andrea, the lady who runs this show, she's like, "You're going to love these audiences. You're just so spoiled. They laugh at everything. They're so great. They're so supportive." Almost to the point where it's like, "Don't let it get to your head. These women would laugh at anything," kind of thing. And so I go out, I do these shows, and it was great. It was so good. And I remember coming off the stage and being like, "Yeah, she's right. That's like way too easy. If I just did crowds like this, I wouldn't become a good comedian because I would just think that I was really funny." And then I thought, no, because of all the hoagie bros in my city—and I could think of specific comedians—if they did a ten-minute set on this showcase, crickets. And it's like, I'm just not in front of my audience.

It's not until I get in front of my people that I go, "Okay, I can make this a career."

So I've done everything from mom shows to home shows where I will go into women's homes where it's like a girls' night. Those are always fantastic. And even I've contacted senior centers to just do free daytime shows because I want to be able to make people in their seventies and eighties laugh.

And old people will heckle the crap out of you. Kids are incredible to perform in front of because you really do not know what they're going to say.

So I do like performing to different groups for the challenge that it presents.

Suzy: What I'm hearing is that you really do have to adjust to the audience, which requires a massive amount of skill to be able to absorb their reactions, involve them in certain ways, and also consider who the crowd is and what they are going to find funny. So that really keeps you on your toes. And getting on stage to do stand-up comedy would be my absolute worst fear, so I give you massive props for taking this on. But then I read your quote, which I'd like to share here from your Substack. The quote is: "If you go on stage thinking that you've made it and you know exactly what will make people laugh and make it about you, you'll likely fail. But if you enter completely open, relaxed, and ready to accept whatever the audience gives you, then you have a fighting chance." And I think that overlaps into travel and adventure, especially as a family: being open to new experiences, not going in with preconceived ideas of what this experience is going to be like, but just accepting of what it could be and rolling with it, like you mentioned.

And then also, when I think of religion in general, especially Mormonism, I think a lot about community as one of the main things that people love about religion. There's a common understanding between the people that practice this religion; there's a lot of assistance that is provided to each other. And I believe when people are traveling, they're often looking for that same type of community, just maybe in a different aspect. And I'm curious, since you've left Mormonism, what has community looked like for you, and how have you found that? Is it through comedy? Are there other ways that you've been able to find community?

Leah: This is one that I haven't been great at.

We had left the Mormon church. We moved to Philly not knowing anybody. We didn't know any of the members of the church here. We knew a few parents, but we just didn't have a solid community. And I remember if something happened to me when I was Mormon, if I had a baby or hip surgery or something, the community would rally around me and I knew that. But if that happened in Philly and my friends are all comics in their twenties and thirties, I'm like, wow, I really left a really strong community that was very reliable and kind of found the island of misfit toys. And I mean, to an extent, I am too, you know. I sadly don't help my neighbor as much as I used to when I was Mormon. Not because I don't want to, but it's just built-in with the community. And now my comings and goings are so fleeting.

And honestly, when we traveled, we thought we would find that community pretty quickly.

We at that time were sort of leaving Mormonism. We were a little bit in, so we would go to church, and it was great. The first time we went to church in Edinburgh, we met these lovely families that were like, "If you ever need somebody to watch your kids or something for you to have a night out..." Mormonism is a very good travel hack. Even if you're not interested in the religion, just find out where the building is and meet the people, because they're super friendly and you'll probably just find out what a good park to hang out at is, or there's a mom's group with toddlers and they get together at the library at two o'clock.

Suzy: I love it. That is a really good observation.

But let's talk about those family travels. You took off in 2021, sold everything, and started traveling. Fill me in on where you started, what travel looked like, and then also how that evolved.

Leah: So we wanted to wait until our youngest was potty trained just to make it easier. We left for London in September of 2021.

The reason we got rid of everything was because I thought we would be gone for two or three years. We'd start in the UK as a warm-up because we speak the language and we had friends that lived there, so we'd kind of get our bearings. And then I thought after that we would go to Ireland or Portugal, and then go over to Croatia. So that was the plan. But after six months in the UK, my family was ready to have some roots.

They wanted to go. And this is what's kind of weird: English people weren't as friendly. I mean, we know they're polite—British people have a famously polite culture. But it was weird. Our kids would go to the playground, and it would be sunny and okay, and there just weren't any other kids out there, and then maybe one or two. In fact, the people who were the most reliably friendly, that we actually got to go over to their house and have dinner or vice versa, were immigrants. So the friends that we made in the UK were from Pakistan, Poland, and Bosnia.

And it's almost like that same thing of, "Hey, I know what it's like to be an outsider, too." And maybe because people who are native English, they just probably had their friends and their family, and that's what kept them busy. I don't think they were trying to be rude. It's just their social itches were being scratched. And for people who were transplants, they were still looking for friends and community. So I think that would have made a difference. I think if my kids had made close friends there, and that had been their experience in each city, they might have been like, "Yay, let's go to Portugal, because that just means more friends!" But instead, it was kind of like, I don't know, they just weren't into it.

So we wanted to pick what city we would live in. When we came back to the States, we stayed in Seattle, Denver, Portland, Chicago, and Pittsburgh. Boston was on the list, but once we got to Philadelphia, it was pretty clear that this was kind of our dream city because we can get to DC very easily, and New York's even quicker. And so for comedy, I can go up and down the eastern seaboard really easily. And it's not as cold as Boston, so I can walk to all my gigs anytime of the year.

So yeah, we ended up in Philadelphia after testing out each city, because I think my husband made this point: a lot of people don't pick where they live. It's just by default. Like, "I grew up in Marietta, Georgia, so that's where I live," or "I went to school in Boulder, Colorado, and then I met my wife there," and you just kind of end up there. And it might not be your ideal city, which maybe doesn't matter.

I think one of the ways that you can kind of get over the itch of wanting to travel is picking a city as your home base that you really, really enjoy. And then you're not as eager to leave all the time, maybe.

Suzy: Very true. I think the way you did it was to travel and then have this realization that community is really important, and that sometimes it is hard to break into the local community wherever you are. Even if language is not a barrier per se, it still doesn't mean that you're instantly going to make friends there. And I think that's a really good realization for families that are thinking about traveling: to be really cognizant of what community looks like when we are in these areas, whether that means finding other traveling families or other programs. It's not always a given for some families; it definitely can vary.

And then also, I love the way that you found your next home base in the US by trying to take almost a scientific approach. The way you and your husband mapped out these locations, all the pros and the cons, but then you spent time living there—and not just a short period, not just a weekend, but an extended period of time—gave you a chance to really get a feel for each of these locations. And I've heard really good things about Philadelphia. I've actually considered it as somewhere down the line, just because you have the proximity to so many airports, and also there's a lot of culture there. You have a little bit more of the density like Europe does in some ways, which is huge.

Leah: It's the most walkable city in the United States. Yeah.

Suzy: People really like that when they are in Europe, and then they think, "Where can I have that at home?" And I can tell you, living in Denver, it's not. I'm in my car all the time here, and it irks me.

Leah: Yeah, Denver was one of our spots, and that was the thing: it's so car-centric.

Suzy: They try, but yeah.

Leah: There's a domino effect of being car-centric, and it might seem like, why is it such a big deal to have to drive places? But you don't get these fun, impromptu meetups, like the things that we see as we're walking to places. Sometimes as a family, we just wander around Philadelphia. We don't know it's a Saturday, and we're like, "Oh, there's a thing over at the Betsy Ross Museum or something." So we just walk over there, and on the way, there's a street fair, there's this. And you don't get that from a car. There's just more opportunities for synchronicities, people-watching, and discovering new little restaurants, libraries, or parks that make it kind of feel like traveling.

And economically, Philadelphia is rated the largest poor city, so the area that we live in is affordable. And that's what we just kept finding: all of the kind of cute, safe, clean neighborhoods were so crazy expensive. And where we live in Philadelphia, it's not a hundred percent safe, but we sort of want our kids to be street-savvy and to teach them how to interface with people and know their limits. For the most part, you walk around the city and it's fine.

And I think that's one of the things with traveling: when you go to another country, I want them to be more confident in the way that they navigate the world. And so we moved to a really dangerous city—no, certain parts are definitely more dangerous than others, for sure, so we picked a safe-for-Philadelphia neighborhood.

Suzy: But like you said, it does teach you to be aware of your surroundings and how to navigate that, and those skills really apply in a lot of different communities around the world. But let's go back to when you were traveling in the UK and then also when you were nomadic in the US. What did education look like? Was this experiential? Did you do online? What did that look like? And remind me of the ages of your kids around that time.

Leah: They were three, six, and nine when we were out. I am basically like a deadbeat dad. I'm the deadbeat dad in the relationship. So I like your term "experiential." Yep, that's what I did: experiential. No, we had Reading Eggs and HeidiSongs; we wanted them to know how to read, that was a big thing. But in terms of sitting down with workbooks and teaching them math, that is just not my jam.

We definitely went to museums and we would talk about things. We would listen to podcasts in the car. We would usually go to the library first thing when we got to a new area. We'd check out the local library; sometimes there are programs there. I don't know if we should have done this, but we would get library cards because we had an address, you know, so sorry, Airbnb host, if you're getting stuff from the Stafford Regional Library now! But letting them pick out books that they liked, encouraging them to read, having conversations about the things that we were seeing. I remember going to the Victoria and Albert Museum and my daughter just sat down with her little notebook and was sketching one of the dresses that was on display. And so I kind of thought there's always time for them to catch up. And that's probably one of the most compelling arguments for unschooling: when a kid is motivated to learn something, they can teach themselves algebra in a month. So you don't have to feel so overwhelmed that they're behind in this or behind in that; they can catch up. But taking the time out to have these experiences, like when we were fossil hunting in Dorset, just going through the fossils and learning the different names of them—we visited the gift shops where you could see the nicer versions that they had found there. And I'm like, I think she's going to remember that more than she would a unit in her elementary school.

I think it was just enough travel for them to get the confidence that they could learn about things and to have memories of interesting places without kind of burning me out and setting them so far behind, because I tend to not be great in the admin department when it comes to schooling. So if anyone else feels like they're in that boat: solidarity.

Suzy: You know, kids learn so much from just being out and about, and they can always hop back into a learning environment and they're not going to be behind. And I know you said your husband worked remotely during this time, but I'm curious about when you were in the UK, what were the costs like? Cost of living in the UK?

Leah: I would say it's comparable. Obviously, places like London and Dorset are going to be more expensive than most—I mean, but not more expensive than Seattle or DC. So I think rent or the cost of an Airbnb is similar, but we got a good deal on a three-bedroom, two-bath in Stafford, which is in the West Midlands. I picked it because there's a train station nearby, so if I wanted to go down to London or something, I could do that. But Stafford, if you talk to people from the UK, they'll be like, "Why were you in Stafford?" And when you're an American over there, you're like, "You don't understand, everything's adorable!" You don't know that it's considered a trashy city. So we liked it; we have no complaints. But that one ended up being, I think, 1,300 pounds a month, and that's for a three-bedroom with everything included—utilities, internet, electricity, everything like that included in it.

So that was 1,300 pounds, which is, I don't know, like 1,700 or 1,800 dollars a month or something.

Suzy: Yes.

Leah: Did you Google it? Was my math right?

Suzy: Yes, no, you're right. It was like 1,750, so you were perfectly right on.

Leah: Woo! My gosh, I've still got it. Okay.

Food I found to be more delicious and affordable. Eating out is the same or more, although you don't tip over there, so I guess with tips it would be about the same. But groceries are, I thought, quite affordable. The thing with England is it's quite car-centric, which we didn't realize. We thought we would just bounce around on the trains. Trains can be really expensive—more expensive than flying. For example, the train from Edinburgh to London could cost you three or four hundred dollars, but a plane from Edinburgh to London can be like forty bucks and it takes you an hour to get there.

But you can't use public transport in the UK reliably with a family unless you're sticking to major cities. If not, you have to rent a car, which I found very difficult.

Rural will be cheaper if it's not a resort place, but it's going to be spicier. Everything that you saw in Downton Abbey is going to go out the window when you hear your drunk neighbors having a fight. Even where we were staying in Leith, which is a suburb of Edinburgh, these kids on bikes and the cops were called and a fistfight—you'll see some life when you compromise on rent. It's true for anywhere; it's the same with Philadelphia, you know?

Suzy: There you go, yeah.

Leah: You maybe see a different side of things, which, like you said, keeps it spicy. I like that.

Suzy: You shared one of the challenges, though, of traveling was when your family decided that this was not the lifestyle that they wanted to continue longer than six months in the UK, and you had hoped it had been for a few more years.

If you could talk a little bit more about that challenge and how as a family you compromised in some ways to meet what the kids wanted, but also how you've still been able to adjust and continue travel in your own way through comedy. I think that that is a big part of traveling families: at some point, kids or parents are going to have differing opinions, and I'm very curious how that evolved for you and how that's continued to change.

Leah: It's easy to be in love with the idea of travel, and I think we're sold this picture of it because we have so many influencers and people whose job it is to make money selling the idea of traveling, and we don't see the dark side of it or the challenges.

In terms of my family saying that they were done, if I'm honest with myself, and I was, it was so much work. And so even though I could kick and scream and go, "You guys are a bunch of squares! How come no one else has adventure in their soul?" it's like, really, Leah, you don't want a break from scanning the entire house every week or month, trying to find every last sock under the cushion, every charger? To me, the worst part of traveling are timetables. I hate when we've got to be out by eleven, we have to check out, and you're like, "Okay, guys, we've got to leave in half an hour. No, just take the kids out to the car, I'll do it." And then you're trying to shove everything in a backpack and get it all out there, and you're going down four flights of stairs with all this luggage. And you come back in, you're looking at the refrigerator, and you're trying to figure out what you can salvage. Like, "I'll take that salad. No, that's going to be gross in the car. Well, I don't want to have to buy more stuff because we just got these groceries, and everybody told me they would finish these leftovers." So you're taking meatloaf that you're trying to wrap up in tinfoil to eat in the car, and just half-eaten bags of chips, and wondering, "What do I store these in?" And just that chaos.

And I went, okay, they are not cool with traveling. Now what I want you to do is take all the things that you've stuffed down, all the things where you're like, "It's okay, it's all right," bring all of those up and go, "Yeah, it is a good idea to just have one place." All the things that you talked yourself off a ledge about, you can now bring those up and go, "Yeah, this is hard." It is hard to be on a three-hour bus journey with a cranky toddler who's screaming. Remember how exhausted you were when you got off the plane and you had to wait in customs? So the times where you're like, "I wish we could travel"—no, really look at the full picture. Don't just look at the picture of how cute it was when you were hiking the mountain; remember when the six-year-old fell in the water in January and didn't have spare clothes, so you had to end the hike so she didn't get hypothermia. Remember what a faff it was when the tire blew out on that mountain road and then you had to hitchhike into town to find somebody to change the tire on the rental car. Remember all the bad stuff, and then you're like, "It's okay. There's a reason people don't do this; there's a reason it's not common." It does take more time, more money, more mental energy, fortitude, and planning. It is extra work, and so I couldn't fault them for that.

And so when my family ultimately decided it wasn't for them, it was pretty easy to find the trade-offs. I think maybe for some people they feel like they're a failure or it's a defeat. But luckily, I can just throw my family under the bus: it's their fault, the scapegoat.

Suzy: It was them first.

Leah: Yeah, it's their fault I'm not living my dreams! No.

I've just worked it into my life. I do festivals now; I go to the UK a couple of times a year and I do my own festivals, which is great because I get to travel and I'm not hauling kids around and enough snacks to keep everyone quiet. So it's just much easier for me to travel on my own, and that's okay. We found a rhythm that works for us, and I think that's important for families: to just give and take, and like you said, time and season.

Isn't that like the suckiest part about having kids? When they're really little, they're so beautiful and precious and sweet, but there's so much work and you're so exhausted and at the end of your rope. And then they grow up, and you're like, "Why can't we go back and visit when they were little?" And so I think just trying to really suck the marrow out of those really tender, sweet times that you have—driving in the car around Christmas time, listening to Christmas music—and just try to really marinate in those and enjoy them so that they offset the crazy times. Because I do think it's a big strain on families and marriages to travel, especially if your reasons for doing it aren't up to the task of managing the extra level of stress. If your point of traveling is to impress other people, I think that would be very difficult.

Suzy: Yeah, to put on that persona.

Leah: If there's a natural curiosity about other people and cultures, I think it's a lot easier. But if you're traveling to avoid—if you're like, "I hate my job, I hate me, I'll travel"—however stinky your job is, it's probably not as bad as carrying around a steaming hot diaper for two hours until you find a trash can, you know what I mean? Like, it has its stuff, too.

Suzy: Thank you for sharing more about those challenges that you experienced, because I think they're very real. And it's not a failure to have lived, learned, tried something new, and then pivoted at some point. I really think that is a great way to highlight how we can try new things, and we don't have to do things forever. But we can try it out and we can learn about ourselves, and then it helps us land in a place like where you're in Philadelphia now that really fits you because you went through a journey to find that. And so I think that's really beautiful in its own right.

Let's also finish on some of the wins from your year of nomadic living. Are there any wins that come to mind?

Leah: I really did like our trip to Dorset. Dorset, I think, was our most expensive place that we stayed. It's on the Jurassic Coast, a big vacation spot.

And just seeing my kids playing in the tide pools, filling their pockets with fossils—they were just really happy, and they got along. And we had a nice little place where we stayed, and after a day in the cold October evenings in England, just taking a warm bath, and I would go out on a run by myself. One time I went out into the sea as the sun was setting and just thought, "This is why I came. I don't have this at home," that kind of feeling. And I think making memories that are totally your own—like we were there for Christmas and we debated whether to get a Christmas tree or not, so I just bought some lights and I taped them to the wall in the shape of a tree. And that's just a quirky memory that they'll have, you know?

My favorite things are that my kids have seen beautiful old buildings, they've made friends in other countries, they have the confidence to travel, and they know how to diss on McMansions, basically. It's just having seen and felt quality. And I'm not saying that what we have in America isn't quality, but there's a certain appreciation—

Suzy: No, McMansions are terrible.

Leah: There's an appreciation that you get when you can go into a distinct culture and experience it and then leave it and go, "Oh yeah, the salad dressings in America are a lot better, but I really liked Cornish pasties," or to have this second soul that you get from living in a different place and seeing that there are different ways of doing things. So I would say that's probably the highlight for me: just those rare moments where we were in a quiet, beautiful place and everybody just seemed to be there and not saying they were hungry, cold, tired, or wanted to go home, but just really engaged in whatever they were doing. And I could just sit back and go, "Yeah, I'm glad we left," versus the version of me that's packing up the hotel so we can get on the plane.

Suzy: Searching for those socks.

Leah: Yeah.

Suzy: Beautifully well said. There are adventures to be had, there are beautiful moments, and we don't have to do it forever to still walk away with an appreciation for something new and different. That impression can stick with our kids for a long time.

If people want to connect with you, where can they find more about you and your shows?

Leah: I have a website, learenee.co, so I'll put show dates on there. And of course I have YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, and Substack—I blog on Substack.

Suzy: I really appreciate you sharing more about the ups and downs of travel, the adventures that you had, and the realizations that you had as a family. It's not always easy, not always perfect, but it can help us find our next step.

Thank you for sharing your time with us today.

Leah: Thank you, Suzy.